1. UberPeople.NET - Independent community of rideshare drivers. It's FREE to be a person and enjoy all the benefits of membership. Sign-up HERE!

Why It's Getting Harder for Uber to Break the Law - SLATE 12/22/16

Discussion in 'News' started by Michael - Cleveland, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. Michael - Cleveland

    Michael - Cleveland Moderator Moderator

    Location:
    Great Lakes
    Driving:
    UberSELECT
    I think you missed the point of the question which was about scaling available cars to meet the demands in an area - and where the un-needed cars would be at rest (presumably for re-fueling and cleaning). The idea is to always have only the number of cars needed 'in-service' at any given time.
     
  2. andaas

    andaas Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Dallas
    Driving:
    Lyft
    Which question? I originated a question about where these vehicles will stage when unoccupied. I didn't ask about where the fleet would be managed - just what happens to a vehicle that drops off a ride and is now idle.

    If you always return a vehicle to it's nearest "home" - then you are talking about a large amount of dead miles.

    So my question, to rephrase, is trying to answer the following situation:
    I arrive back in my local airport and take an autonomous Uber ride back to my home in the suburbs. I live roughly 18 miles from the airport, and 18 miles from "downtown". After the car drops me off, where does it go? Does it sit in front of my house awaiting a new dispatch? Does it return to the airport and "hope" for a dispatch along the way? Does it circle the block?
     
  3. Michael - Cleveland

    Michael - Cleveland Moderator Moderator

    Location:
    Great Lakes
    Driving:
    UberSELECT
    18 miles? A half gallon of gas on a normal car - a pint in a hybrid - none for an electric car. Cars don't 'hope' for rides the way some drivers do - they go where the historical data tells them to go, whether that's to sit tight for a few minutes or head to a nearby area - or head back to the mother-ship. That's what computers are good at - and that's what drives efficiency. When we all start nay-saying about the logistics, don't you think we sound just like the nay-sayers at the turn of the last century poo-poohing the automobile with quips like 'where will they re-fuel?'... or those who blew off cellphones early on because 'what good is a phone if you can only use it when in your a big city with service?' or those who asked 'why would anyone ever want a computer in their home'?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2017
    SmokestaXX and grams777 like this.
  4. grams777

    grams777 Moderator Moderator

    Location:
    Nashville
    Also consider Uber has alot more information available than what they share with drivers. They know who has the app open, when and where. They know what scheduled rides are coming. They know stastically what rides are likely to happen as well. None of that is usually shared with drivers who can only take a best guess or randomly wander about. Also there would be little need to waste miles trying to out locate other drivers.

    Imagine the car that drops you off 'sees' a nearby rider with the app open typing in a destination. Or maybe there's a scheduled ride coming in 10 minutes. That car could be routed to it or even assigned provisionally on its way as it gets close. Then add in dynamically assigned Pool rides and things can get very efficient (for Uber).

    How many times did you leave an area and 5 minutes later got pinged nearby and had to backtrack. Most likely Uber had known something about the chances of a ride when the rider opened the app minutes earlier.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  5. andaas

    andaas Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Dallas
    Driving:
    Lyft
    It still doesn't answer the question.

    "It goes where it's needed.", isn't an answer. I'm saying it's NOT needed - however - statistically speaking - the algorithms know it will be needed, just not when (5 minutes or 50 minutes). What does it do in the meantime?

    To sustain service levels in established markets, Uber will need thousands of cars. These cars will either be occupied, unoccupied/unassigned, assigned and en-route, returning to base (cleaning, etc.), or re-positioning for demand.
     
    yeahTHATuberGVL and grams777 like this.

  6. Michael - Cleveland

    Michael - Cleveland Moderator Moderator

    Location:
    Great Lakes
    Driving:
    UberSELECT
    Well, it may not satisfy you (sorry) but it is an answer. Uber is a data driven company. Supply & Demand were just the beginning. We're seeing implementation of predictive algorithms and very complex routing and re-routing.
    The system does know 'when' - based on historical demand that is constantly updated. If the system 'sees' that someone at 12 Elm St is looking for a car every M-F at 7:30A, you can bet the system will make sure a car is nearby - based on the order request history. After the morning rush hour (or Sat night bar close) most cars will be ordered to put themselves to bed somewhere (likely a garage facility), while others will be ordered to where the system feels they will be needed next. Like all things based on math, statistics and historical data, the systems will get better with time and use.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  7. andaas

    andaas Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Dallas
    Driving:
    Lyft
    If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?

    If an autonomous Uber vehicle doesn't need a passenger, does it exist?

    Philosophical questions that may never be answered.
     
  8. Michael - Cleveland

    Michael - Cleveland Moderator Moderator

    Location:
    Great Lakes
    Driving:
    UberSELECT
    lol... Then again, it thinks, therefore it is.
     
  9. TwoFiddyMile

    TwoFiddyMile Well-Known Member

    Location:
    charlotte
    Driving:
    Taxi
    Electric cars use plenty of petrol.
    If the local generating station (PG&E etc) burned oil to turn it's turbines, you betcha that electric car is running on pure petrol. Getting off the grid is far more difficult than simply plugging your car into 110/220 outlet.
     
  10. Michael - Cleveland

    Michael - Cleveland Moderator Moderator

    Location:
    Great Lakes
    Driving:
    UberSELECT
    Not exactly:

    Major energy sources and percent share of total U.S. electricity generation in 2015
    [source: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3]

    • Coal = 33%
    • Natural gas = 33%
    • Nuclear = 20%
    • Hydropower = 6%
    • Other renewables = 7%
    • Petroleum = 1%
     
  11. TwoFiddyMile

    TwoFiddyMile Well-Known Member

    Location:
    charlotte
    Driving:
    Taxi
    Natural gas and coal are not clean fuel sources. So even if I'm wrong, which I'm not sure I am, 67℅ of your sourced fuels are dirty.
     
    jonnyplastic likes this.
  12. Michael - Cleveland

    Michael - Cleveland Moderator Moderator

    Location:
    Great Lakes
    Driving:
    UberSELECT
    'my' fuel sources? What - you don't use electricity?
    Unless I'm mistaken, which I'm not, ;) the discussion is about cost - not cleanliness.
    But seriously - discussions of future technologies that assume yesterday's technologies won't change are kind of pointless.
    Then again, guesses about tomorrow's technologies are nothing more than wild-ass-guesses, too
    (unless you or I are Arthur Clarke. Hugo Gernsback, H.G. Wells, George Orwell, Ray Bradbury, John Bruner, etc.)
     
  13. TwoFiddyMile

    TwoFiddyMile Well-Known Member

    Location:
    charlotte
    Driving:
    Taxi
    John Brunner has been shockingly correct.
    The fuel sources you listed for how electricity is generated in America, I don't believe oil is only 1℅. Where did you source that, Mother Jones?
    Edit: OK those numbers look pretty credible across several information sources online. So although I was wrong about oil being the top source for generating electricity in USA, I was not wrong about the fact that the majority of juice an electric car uses in Murica is generated by a dirty, polluting fuel.
    Just because a CAR doesn't have an exhaust pipe doesn't mean it's not polluting the environment.

    By today's numbers, 67℅ of the fuel sources for electricity are dirty and harming the environment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
    jonnyplastic likes this.
  14. Michael - Cleveland

    Michael - Cleveland Moderator Moderator

    Location:
    Great Lakes
    Driving:
    UberSELECT
    I think you posted in the wrong section.
    The 'green energy' section is down the hall to the left.
    The COST of fuel to operate an electric car is far less than the cost of fuel to operate an internal combustion engine powered car.
    Oh... and cleaner. And yes, I posted the source of the numbers in my post: The US Department of Energy)

    Yup - and the funny thing is, the cars are just as dirty or clean whether there is a driver behind the wheel or a cumputer.
     
  15. Ozzyoz

    Ozzyoz Well-Known Member

    Location:
    MSP
    Even can companies are a" technology company" as Cabs and Limos can be reserved online and ordered via some apps like iHail. So booyaa Uber. Nothing special about your black and white ass.
     
  16. Michael - Cleveland

    Michael - Cleveland Moderator Moderator

    Location:
    Great Lakes
    Driving:
    UberSELECT
    hehe - let me know how well iHail works for you when you get off the plane in Philly - or Dallas - or anywhere in the world other than MSP.
    No - I am not going to install and register 250 different apps.

    ... and MSP to the Walker Arts Center:

    $36.50 Taxi/iHail ($42 w/15% tip)
    vs.
    $~18 Uber (~$22 w/15% tip)

    That's a 50% savings to the consumer.

    Booyah.
     
  17. Ozzyoz

    Ozzyoz Well-Known Member

    Location:
    MSP
    I'm not referring to prices here. I'm referring to how Uber uses technology company as an excuse. Other services are also technology companies and msp airport always surges at 2x with Uber.
     
  18. tohunt4me

    tohunt4me Well-Known Member

    Location:
    new orleans , la.
    Not enough Uber kitten promotions.
    They forgot the soft and cuddly front while replacing us with Robots !
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Speedyracer

    Speedyracer Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Baltimore
    Driving:
    UberX
    You guys are thinking to black and white. It doesn't have to be all in or all out. We would be the back up for busy times. You know... " Get your side hustle on " I'm guessing there fleet would handle the normal periods. Then when it's busy... Guess who steps in to cover the slack ? Us that's who. Weekends, events, new years Eve etc... Get your side hustle on!
     
  20. SmokestaXX

    SmokestaXX Active Member

    You may be onto something. Uber has some type of partnership with Hertz in Nashville, TN.
     
    Michael - Cleveland likes this.

Share This Page