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UberX demerit points issue hots up

Discussion in 'Brisbane' started by Instyle, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. YES, Maximum risk with minimum return

    14 vote(s)
  2. NO, I love driving for Uber and will lose my license for them

    0 vote(s)
  3. MAYBE, I'll wing it until my first 3 point fine then stop immediately

    5 vote(s)
  1. Instyle

    Instyle Moderator

    Gold Coast
    by dennis | Sep 12, 2015 | Featured News, Queensland | 0 comments

    UBER drivers would be slugged with tougher penalties under a Bill to be introduced by the Katter’s Australian Party.

    KAP MPs Robbie Katter (pictured) and Shane Knuth say they fear the controversial rise of Uber will eventually lead to Queensland’s taxi industry being “wiped out”.

    “We feel that if Government’s not going to do anything, Opposition’s not going to do anything, we will do something,” Mr Knuth said.

    “You’ll see major parties will tip-toe through the tulips, whereas we see the need (to act). It’s not about votes. We’re making decisions on what is good for our regions.”

    The pair, who are also concerned about Uber’s attempts to dodge GST, plan to introduce the Transport Legislation (Taxi Services) Amendment Bill 2015 during the upcoming sitting week as a private member’s Bill. The Bill proposes drivers receive three demerit points for their first breach and six for each offence after that.

    Uber has argued that it is a ride-sharing service and shouldnot come under the same regulations as the taxi industry, who have branded it an “illegal taxi service”.

    The KAP MPs say they are particularly concerned about the impact a major decline within the taxi industry would have on Queenslanders with disabilities and Department of Veterans’ Affairs passengers.

    “They move a million wheelchairs per annum at no cost to the Government – it’s cross-subsidised from other routes,” Mr Katter said.

    “So, if the taxi industry disappears, somehow we’ve got to magically come up with a way to transport those million people a year in wheelchairs.”

    Mr Katter, who said cabbies were “up in arms” in his electorate, is hopeful that even if the proposed laws are not ultimately adopted, the Bill willgenerate more public debate and force the Government to act on the issue sooner.

    “We’re optimistic that it will be successful in some form and it will generate some protection to the Australian taxpayers and to the 60,000 businesses that are built around the taxi industry,” he said.
    chi1cabby likes this.
  2. Shock


    'fear the controversial rise of Uber will eventually lead to Queensland’s taxi industry being “wiped out”.'

    That's not the way to govern in a democratic capitalist environment. Again, it wouldn't make sense to perpetuate the fax machine or type writer industries. Manufacturers of such devices didn't try to shut down email or word processors when they were introduced, they adapted and became part of the new industry. Why should we make exceptions for the taxi industry?
    g00r likes this.
  3. Instyle

    Instyle Moderator

    Gold Coast
    Uber didn't reinvent the wheel, they use the same 4 wheels to cart you from A to B except with a sleek App and no regulation while the fundimental principals remain the same.

    Now, if you the Taxi industry were against Teleportation or some other new way of getting around that is vastly different I'd see weight in your argument but it's not the case.
    Fuzzyelvis, UberX.illegal? and g00r like this.
  4. Shock


    The app and its associated ease of use and payment system, etc are the difference and do weigh in heavily on the argument.

    To use my fax machine/email analogy, the fundamental principals of receiving a message over a network are the same, just the technology is different and ease of use has increased.
  5. You can do all of that using the cab companies apps. So what's the fundamental difference again?
  6. UBER have not reinvented anything other than the concept of being dismissive.

    As far as this bill is concerned it will be kicked around. Who knows where it will end up. We'll know soon enough. But if the points come in (and I believe they will) UBER will shut down and they'll only open up again only with regulation.
  7. camoflage


    ubers show up on time , cabs don't always
  8. Do you agree that;

    1. Uber is more akin to being a 'town car/limo' service than a taxi because of the lack of ability to 'hail' an Uber or pick up one from a rank. You can ring your Limo guy and say 'pick me up now' which doesn't breech their regulations about being 'pre-booked only'. So Uber is still a pre-booked service isn't it?
    2. Taxis deserve competition.
    3. Cabcharge 5 or 10% fee (depending on what state you're in) deserves competition
    4. UberX vehicles don't need cameras/duress alarms just as limos don't.
    5. There should be price regulation
    6. Tax laws need updating that require all multi-nationals to pay company tax in the jurisdiction in which they earned it
  9. Instyle

    Instyle Moderator

    Gold Coast
    There are apps that utilise licensed operators, those cars can stock water and mints and if they were allowed to would store customers payment details as well, therefore no real difference.

    Just because the way a service is delivered or operated is innovated, doesn't mean the whole service is different or concept warrants exception from legislation.
  10. Fair point. People say that they use Uber not because of the price, but because of the service.
    So should UberX be shutdown and everyone start using Uber Black?
    However the low-cost model of UberX seems to work for everyone except for taxis.
    Would governments really care about Uber if taxis weren't jumping up and down about it?
    The same transport regulations that prohibit UberX's model also prohibit the playing of music without headphones (Vic), and the fine for interfering with the operation of a public vehicle's door is 4 x greater than the fine for not having a ticket. But neither of which are ever enforced (just like laws about not being able to legally change a lightbulb without a B grade electrical licence)
    Yeah okay taxis have paid a lot for a stamped piece of steel, but does that mean the pubic should not enjoy the benefits of competition?

    If we kill off ride-sharing/uber all together, would taxis improve or get even worse?
    If we say it can stay, how much do we charge it, just because we have charged taxis to operate
    If we say it can stay and start a buy back service for plates, then who's going to pay for that

    There doesn't seem to be a 'best option' answer here, no matter which road you go down, there will be winners and losers.
    Me personally, I'm all for a free market (what ever that should mean).
  11. Instyle

    Instyle Moderator

    Gold Coast
    1. If the customers destination were available before accepting booking.
    2. YES, though I feel the booking companies are getting far too lightly.
    3. Agree mostly, with further discussion.
    4. With the low price made up in volume approach, cameras are a must! HC and Limos don't see the volume or same demographic customers as Uber or Taxis. A HC can do a single booked job with all details and prepayment for $100 whereas an UberX may have to do 10, $10 jobs across a longer time at traditionally dangerous times of intoxication, late nights and uncertainty etc
    5. YES
    6. YES
  12. Instyle

    Instyle Moderator

    Gold Coast
    You mean much like this when you live in the suburbs and not the CBD?

    Or this text? Unfortunately your driver had to cancel the trip, please request another and we'll have you moving shortly. Followed by surge pricing LOL

    g00r likes this.
  13. Shock


    Well, that really happened after Uber came on the scene and are arguably not as well made (I know it's anecdotal but I was taking a passenger who ordered a taxi on the app for her friend whose phone was flat. By the time I had dropped her home the taxi up was still 'requesting'). I don't think they have a driver/passenger rating system either.

    Technology components aside, the other big difference is the presentation of driver and car and the friendliness. Again, anecdotal, but whenever any of my passengers talk about the differences between Uber and Taxis they always mention first the friendliness and 2nd the cleanliness. This would be easier for taxi companies to 'replicate' but, if the 100 or so odd passengers I've had this conversation with over the last month they aren't.

    3rd is the price, which admittedly taxi cos are going to have difficultly with. I dearly wish taxi cos would lobby the government to re-regulate and thus lift there taxi licences as this can only be a win for me. As a consumer I would have the choice between 2 competing companies. As a driver, I would have the choice to drive for another employer and unions would hold more power.
  14. Shock


    So you're saying it's bad to encourage more drivers to an area to decrease waiting time?

    Obviously, when more drivers enter an area that rate drops (note the sentence at the bottom of the screen shot).
  15. Instyle

    Instyle Moderator

    Gold Coast
    From the driver's point of view it's simple bait and switch which I don't approve of. Your not guaranteed a better fare, just the chance of one. A better system would be a higher base fare upto wherever the nearest driver is, instead of causing traffic congestion and unnecessary pollution.

    Main point was service reliability in outer suburbs where there is a high probability of No X Available.
  16. Sh
    so shock - I have just dropped my pin onto 5 areas that people might want transport from in brisbane at this time of day - redcliffe / Birpingary / Samford / brisbane port / anywhere near Ipswich - whilst not all near the city these are areas with businesses from which people move back an forwards to te airport and to the city ... In all cases the same message 'No UberX available '
    What did you say about coming on time ?? It is about service for everyone not just the few ! Also what happens to the service when drivers accept and cancel / and this happens a few times ... All of a sudden 10 mins is gone ....
    Another app I use is 'GoCatch' which has a rider / driver rating system but instead of 1to5 it is either a thumbs up or a thumbs down - if you thumbs down then you also have to fill in a drop screen to outline the problem why - drivers are let know what the problem is so they can fix it - there is no ongoing threat of deactivation because rider doesn't like your car - a more honest system not developed by fickwots for ****wots !!! Still can't find an uberx - !!
    Also all of the service claims get away from the number 1 reason people use Uber - $$$$ - price , price and price .. Otherwise the uberblack service would be going ballistic if it was about service / friendliness / and car type .. Because with uber black these are guaranteed ... With UberX it is a lucky dip - you might get a near new Audi or a clapped out 8yo Camry (or a barina!!) - on reading this forum you might get water and mints or you might not - you might get a friendly driver or you might get mr angry on the Gold Coast .. I hope you see my point - if pax wanted that 'service ' then they would get BLack not uberX which supports the price theory .
    The problem is riders / pax think anyone can drive a car and that there is no skill involved - they also think that they will never be an accident and that they are way to smart to get assaulted / hurt / abused etc therefore they are being driven as very easy (which it isn't) and therefore value it accordingly (ie cheap) - The Uber business model only reaffirms this by paying third rates for first world service - there is a reason there is a minimum wage ... And uber isn't it ... In essence they think a monkey could drive them down the street and as a result only want to pay the driver peanuts .... That is why they are really friendly- and on the inside they know they are screwing you and laughing too ... Let's face it they pay more for a drink or a coffee than we earn on a $6 fare less expenses ($2.90)
    No wonder they like you ... And free water and a mint !!! Wow what a deal .. Of course they will keep using you ... There is a reason people keep flying qantas and Virgin to Melbourne and Sydney rather the cheapest carriers like tiger and Jetstar ...
    Justdropped the pin again - still 'no Uberx avail' and no surge - so the theory of getting cars to move where needed is also a fallacy ....
  17. leadcurescancer


    Welllll, now it might get interesting.
    Even if the law is adopted it does not mean it will be applied, DTMR have not booked any Uber's for some time and the police have been booking taxis en masse around Eagle St again for illegal parking etc.
    BTW this is why this country needs small parties and Independents, only those people will stand up against the bought and paid for politicians on unpopular or tough issues.
    And shock all your arguments about availability are crazy, airlines went through the same process, it took years for Virgin to reach the furthest parts of Australia and there are still countless routes only serviced subsidised small 3rd level airlines which include Qantas Link just in case you don't know much about airlines.
    I agree with all the stuff above generally from Instyle. Surge is about moving sheep around, if they operated with any sense they would have a dispatch and they could move cars around as needed, they could get rid of the ghost cars etc etc etc.
    Eventual regulation will bring in a player that runs this like a transportation business and it will not be Uber, rideshare is here to stay in one form or another. I hope it's not Uber that's all.
  18. 1. I am not sure about this point.
    2. Yes. But not from a company that disregards all our LAWS. and undercuts other legitimate businesses by doing so.
    3. Yes. It actually needs to be shut down :)
    4. See in styles response to this.
    5. Yes. That's the only way to have a sustainable business model for drivers the working force of taxis as well as UberX.
    6. BIG YES!
  19. I agree, but to Uber's credit, they have started the ball rolling. Before they got here, there was no talk at a government level about enabling a service such as this.
    As Uber absorbs the cost of the fines and legal bills, they governments of each state will have to come up with a solution, at which time competition will start to emerge and hopefully win the support of drivers and passengers
  20. Not after UberX arrived in Australia. Australian taxi companies have had apps for about 5 years or so. Even GoCatch is older than UberX

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