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Uber's dispatch patent explicitly mentions age discrimination against drivers.

touberornottouber

Well-Known Member
I thought I would mention it as it is probably important to many of us who are older and do this full time.

Here is an excerpt from a patent Uber made in regards to their dispatch system:

Other factors may be concealed in the feedback data 111 such as a preference towards punctuality, a preference (or lack thereof) towards newer vehicles, an age range preference for the driver, and the like.
(emphasis mine)

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2017/0011324.html

Here is that entire paragraph along with the previous and following paragraph from the patent for contextual purposes (with my own emphasis added) :

In one example, the feedback data 111 can link a sentiment between the user and the driver, which can further be linked to various conditions that existed or occurred with the trip, including, for example, the vehicle manufacturer or type, a class of the user (e.g., if the user is an employee of the entity that operates the dispatch system 100), the price or price rate of the trip, the time and/or the day of the week, the end location or destination of the trip, etc. The dispatch system 100 can extrapolate or determine an individual user's preferences based on what trip conditions existed or occurred that resulted in that user being satisfied or extremely satisfied with a trip or a driver of the trip, such that the user gave high ratings (e.g., four or five stars out of five) to that driver, or being dissatisfied or extremely dissatisfied with a trip or a driver of the trip, such that the user gave low ratings (e.g., zero to three stars) to that driver. Furthermore, the content of the feedback data 111 can provide further information regarding the user's preferences when receiving a transport service. The profile manager 110 can parse through or analyze the content of the feedback data 111 submitted by a given user for a driver to determine the user preferences. Additionally or alternatively, the designated application can include a feature that enables the given user to set various preferences.

In some examples, the user profile 132 can include a blacklist feature where the user is enabled to blacklist certain drivers to avoid future pairings. For matching operations, the matching engine 120 may identify whether one or more proximate drivers, in relation to the requesting user, are included in the user's blacklist. If so, the dispatch system 100 may automatically disregard the blacklisted driver(s) from the matching operation. Additionally or alternatively, the user preferences can be incorporated into the given user's profile 132, and can include an assortment of factors, such as a preferred vehicle type (e.g., luxury cars, SUVs, a preferred brand of vehicle, hybrid electric cars, driverless vehicles, and the like). Other factors may be concealed in the feedback data 111 such as a preference towards punctuality, a preference (or lack thereof) towards newer vehicles, an age range preference for the driver, and the like. The profile manager 110 can identify and flag such preferences in the given user's profile 132. Additionally or alternatively, each user profile 132 can include various user information, such as age, height, weight, gender, eye color, hair color, background, home address, work address, citizenship, country of origin, and various other user data, preferences, or configurations.

Furthermore, such feedback data 111 can enable the profile manager 110 to compile a given driver's profile 134 based on overall performance and merit. The driver profile 134 can include an overall rating for the driver (e.g., 4.67 stars), as well as individual ratings and/or complaints given by users. Each individual rating may be driver and/or destination specific. Accordingly, the profile manager 110 can identify various performance traits of the given driver. For example, the feedback data 111 may indicate that the given driver excels on certain types of trips (e.g., trips to the airport, trips in dense urban centers, etc.), while lagging behind in performance on other types of trips (e.g., long distance trips, trips on mountainous roads, etc.). For instance, a given driver may have received an average rating of 4.95 stars when that driver provides transport from San Francisco to San Francisco International Airport (e.g., from data analyzed from one hundred such trips the driver completed), but may have received an average rating of 4.23 stars when that driver provides within the San Francisco city limits for trips lasting longer than 15 minutes (e.g., from data analyzed from two hundred such trips the driver completed). Based on the feedback data 111, the profile manager 110 can determine that the given driver excels on certain types of trips and lags behind on other types of trips.
Basically the patent discusses the dispatch system. Here it explicitly mentions the age of the driver as a way to discriminate and determine whether a certain driver gets matched to a certain rider.

I am going to read the entire patent and take it apart piece by piece to check what other things are within it. I will probably post a full analysis when finished. But I think the age discrimination aspect is pretty big. It is highly liklely this is already live and being used right now.

Also I will add that the age discrimination aspect of the patented dispatch algorithm appears to directly violate Uber's own published Non-discrimination policy:

Legal
Uber Non-Discrimination Policy
Uber seeks to ensure that safe, reliable, and high-quality transportation options are available to everyone. Uber and its affiliates therefore prohibit discrimination against riders or drivers based on race, religion, national origin, disability, sexual orientation, sex, marital status, gender identity, age or any other characteristic protected under applicable federal or state law. Such discrimination includes, but is not limited to, refusing to provide or accept services based on any of these characteristics. Any rider or driver found to have violated this prohibition will lose access to the Uber platform.
https://www.uber.com/legal/policies/non-discrimination-policy/en/
 

mikes424

Well-Known Member
Uber and its affiliates therefore prohibit discrimination against riders or drivers based on race, religion, national origin, disability, sexual orientation, sex, marital status, gender identity, age

If what this says is accurate, how do the reconcile no unaccompanied minors?

Also, Illinois has the same basic laws written into their transportation acts .
Still waiting for a court case on this.

Nothing in this differentiates between a minor or adult.
 

Nats121

Well-Known Member
I thought I would mention it as it is probably important to many of us who are older and do this full time.

Here is an excerpt from a patent Uber made in regards to their dispatch system:



(emphasis mine)

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2017/0011324.html

Here is that entire paragraph along with the previous and following paragraph from the patent for contextual purposes (with my own emphasis added) :



Basically the patent discusses the dispatch system. Here it explicitly mentions the age of the driver as a way to discriminate and determine whether a certain driver gets matched to a certain rider.

I am going to read the entire patent and take it apart piece by piece to check what other things are within it. I will probably post a full analysis when finished. But I think the age discrimination aspect is pretty big. It is highly liklely this is already live and being used right now.

Also I will add that the age discrimination aspect of the patented dispatch algorithm appears to directly violate Uber's own published Non-discrimination policy:



https://www.uber.com/legal/policies/non-discrimination-policy/en/
Reread their non-discrimination policy, and you'll see uber exempts themselves from the policy.

Their wording of their policy covers drivers and pax, NOT fuber itself.
 

SuperStar3000

Well-Known Member
What does all of this have to do with hailing a cab ride?

"Additionally or alternatively, each of the driver profiles can also include driver information, such as age, height, weight, gender, eye color, hair color, background, vehicle type, home address, citizenship, country of origin, and various driver preferences.

In certain implementations, the dispatch system can further include a data compiler, which can pull third-party data from one or more third party resources … The reputation data can indicate background information of the particular driver relating to, for example, public service, studiousness, work ethic, former military service, former law enforcement service, family background information, and the like. "
 

touberornottouber

Well-Known Member
What does all of this have to do with hailing a cab ride?

"Additionally or alternatively, each of the driver profiles can also include driver information, such as age, height, weight, gender, eye color, hair color, background, vehicle type, home address, citizenship, country of origin, and various driver preferences.

In certain implementations, the dispatch system can further include a data compiler, which can pull third-party data from one or more third party resources … The reputation data can indicate background information of the particular driver relating to, for example, public service, studiousness, work ethic, former military service, former law enforcement service, family background information, and the like. "
Likely so they can discriminate against the driver by not giving them certain rides.
 

Noonespecial

Active Member
This patent explicitly says that Uber discriminates drivers based on which types of trips driver have a higher average on..... While also explicitly saying that choosing drivers can be based on letting passengers discriminate all the other stuff. This is really a fantastic thing. Some passengers might always give older drivers 5 stars, while some give younger drivers 5 stars. Some pax don't care the age of vehicle, some do. As a driver, you should want the types of pax that discriminate in your favor. It increases the likelihood that your ratings will be higher, while avoiding pax who would rate you low for crappy reasons. This type of stuff keeps pax using the service, which keeps drivers busy. Of course, this sucks if 2 drivers are the same distance from a pax, and you're the one who doesn't get the ride.... But this works both ways. We have all had it both ways, seeing drivers closer than you but you get the ride and vise versa. Consequently, this discrimination is most likely only applied when there are multiple drivers nearby, while you will most likely always get the ride if you are the only driver nearby.
The moral of the story I'm reading is to treat short trip riders, college kid riders, and apartment riders like dirt, and treat long trips, airport riders, and XL/select riders well..... Which in theory should lead to these types of rides more often.
Unless of course you feel like all pax hate young drivers, or old drivers, etc. Etc. Ultimately,having a higher rating in general should mean your driving a pax while the lower rated driver is still waiting for that 3$ ping.
 

heynow321

Well-Known Member
. Consequently, this discrimination is most likely only applied when there are multiple drivers nearby, while you will most likely always get the ride if you are the only driver nearby.
You hit the nail on the head. None of this crap really matters if there aren’t any drivers around. If you are worried about this because you’re old or black or have an old car whatever, then move to an area that doesn’t have many drivers (pro tip: you should be doing that anyway )
 

The Gift of Fish

Well-Known Member
n some examples, the user profile 132 can include a blacklist feature where the user is enabled to blacklist certain drivers to avoid future pairings. For matching operations, the matching engine 120 may identify whether one or more proximate drivers, in relation to the requesting user, are included in the user's blacklist. If so, the dispatch system 100 may automatically disregard the blacklisted driver(s) from the matching operation. Additionally or alternatively, the user preferences can be incorporated into the given user's profile 132, and can include an assortment of factors, such as a preferred vehicle type (e.g., luxury cars, SUVs, a preferred brand of vehicle, hybrid electric cars, driverless vehicles, and the like). Other factors may be concealed in the feedback data 111 such as a preference towards punctuality, a preference (or lack thereof) towards newer vehicles, an age range preference for the driver, and the like. The profile manager 110 can identify and flag such preferences in the given user's profile 132. Additionally or alternatively, each user profile 132 can
Wow, I 100 find this really 112 shocking. But then 134 again, it's Uber, so 110 anything's possible.
 

touberornottouber

Well-Known Member
You hit the nail on the head. None of this crap really matters if there aren’t any drivers around. If you are worried about this because you’re old or black or have an old car whatever, then move to an area that doesn’t have many drivers (pro tip: you should be doing that anyway )
That is getting harder and harder to do with the oversaturation of drivers. I work early mornings (4am) and even that isn't enough. Plus the distance threshold isn't known. Do they have to be over 5 minutes away? 10 minutes?

It is very frustrating to find a place by yourself and then to check the rider app and find that an ant decided to park two blocks away from you and now you are screwed unless you move yet again (and having to constantly do this while wasting gas). Basically I don't even check the rider app anymore for Uber. I only check Lyft. Uber only gives me crap runs now anyway (for whatever reason) so there is no point.

It's really frustrating to get up at 3am, be one of only two dots within a two mile radius in an area where you know lots of good airport runs should be going out and to not get them or even to be able to pull up the rider app and watch in real time as they give the runs to other drivers.

In the end realize that if they decide not to give you the pings it doesn't matter what you do.

This patent explicitly says that Uber discriminates drivers based on which types of trips driver have a higher average on..... While also explicitly saying that choosing drivers can be based on letting passengers discriminate all the other stuff. This is really a fantastic thing. Some passengers might always give older drivers 5 stars, while some give younger drivers 5 stars. Some pax don't care the age of vehicle, some do. As a driver, you should want the types of pax that discriminate in your favor. It increases the likelihood that your ratings will be higher, while avoiding pax who would rate you low for crappy reasons. This type of stuff keeps pax using the service, which keeps drivers busy. Of course, this sucks if 2 drivers are the same distance from a pax, and you're the one who doesn't get the ride.... But this works both ways. We have all had it both ways, seeing drivers closer than you but you get the ride and vise versa. Consequently, this discrimination is most likely only applied when there are multiple drivers nearby, while you will most likely always get the ride if you are the only driver nearby.
The moral of the story I'm reading is to treat short trip riders, college kid riders, and apartment riders like dirt, and treat long trips, airport riders, and XL/select riders well..... Which in theory should lead to these types of rides more often.
Unless of course you feel like all pax hate young drivers, or old drivers, etc. Etc. Ultimately,having a higher rating in general should mean your driving a pax while the lower rated driver is still waiting for that 3$ ping.
I want MONEY. I can't pay my car payment on ratings. If I am the closest driver for a good run then I want that run. Especially if I have been sitting in that area idle for one hour waiting for it.

I doubt it is that simple. The discrimination could also be proactive. For instance if you are 55 and it's night and there is a ping from a nightclub maybe it isn't given to you because "you are an old man/woman". You have to remember that for the most part Uber is ran and staffed by a bunch of 20-somethings.

It's really hard for me to believe other drivers think secret age discrimination against them is okay.

As for ratings, I have a 4.92 rating and I am having a hell of a time with Uber. In my case I suspect the discrimination is primarily due to my compact vehicle....and this brings up another issue. This information isn't readily available to us. We can see our rating sure, but we can't see where we stand with this other stuff and how it is effecting which pings are given to us and which aren't.
 

Asificarewhatyoudontthink

Well-Known Member
I thought I would mention it as it is probably important to many of us who are older and do this full time.

Here is an excerpt from a patent Uber made in regards to their dispatch system:



(emphasis mine)

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2017/0011324.html

Here is that entire paragraph along with the previous and following paragraph from the patent for contextual purposes (with my own emphasis added) :



Basically the patent discusses the dispatch system. Here it explicitly mentions the age of the driver as a way to discriminate and determine whether a certain driver gets matched to a certain rider.

I am going to read the entire patent and take it apart piece by piece to check what other things are within it. I will probably post a full analysis when finished. But I think the age discrimination aspect is pretty big. It is highly liklely this is already live and being used right now.

Also I will add that the age discrimination aspect of the patented dispatch algorithm appears to directly violate Uber's own published Non-discrimination policy:



https://www.uber.com/legal/policies/non-discrimination-policy/en/
Rider preference is not Dispatch discrimination.

If you have a preferred server in a restaurant you are not discriminating against the other servers when you ask to be matched to that server...
 

Squirming Like A Toad

Well-Known Member
Age discrimination does not apply to those under 18 in business. A minor cannot legally be bound by a contract and there are a ton of other laws pertaining to them.

It's not a terrible idea, steering certain riders away from certain types of drivers or cars they have a problem with, but it may lead to a discrimination/segregation problem. What happens when a rider consistently one-stars drivers from certain zip codes in Compton, Harlem, or South Central?
 

touberornottouber

Well-Known Member
Rider preference is not Dispatch discrimination.

If you have a preferred server in a restaurant you are not discriminating against the other servers when you ask to be matched to that server...
We aren't talking about an individual decision though. We are talking about a computer algorithm deciding that certain riders do not want other drivers based on their age.

IOW something automatic. The problem is how far it goes and how it is happening secretly. For instance does this effectively result in drivers over 50 getting 30% less pings than someone under 30? Or maybe the young programmers decide to code it in so that drivers over 45 get low priority when it comes to pings from clubs and bars in a certain area? This would be age discrimination not much unlike not giving someone a promotion because they are over 40.
 

Squirming Like A Toad

Well-Known Member
We aren't talking about an individual decision though. We are talking about a computer algorithm deciding that certain riders do not want other drivers based on their age.

IOW something automatic. The problem is how far it goes and how it is happening secretly. For instance does this effectively result in drivers over 50 getting 30% less pings than someone under 30? Or maybe the young programmers decide to code it in so that drivers over 45 get low priority when it comes to pings from clubs and bars in a certain area? This would be age discrimination not much unlike not giving someone a promotion because they are over 40.
It may be just my imagination and I don't know what other drivers are getting, but there may be a punishment/reward system in place. I take almost all my pings, including some that most drivers won't, and when I do I usually get rewarded with some good rides after that.

One thing that is definitely noticeable is when a passenger cancels, I can expect another ping within 60 seconds. We all appear to be in a bit of a queue wherever we are, they don't want drivers getting bored or tired, so I guess when we get a CXL we don't lose our spot in that invisible queue.

Now here's an interesting thing to research: how do that do that thing where they divert you off a long pickup and give you a closer one? They can't cancel the ride you took without knowing another driver is going to take it, and they can't cancel your ride until they know they have another one for you, so it seems they have a small window of time in which to make that transaction. The acceptance rates of the drivers might be involved in that.
 

Mista T

Well-Known Member
Author
There are many times that I hope that Uber and Lyft would figure it out. I wish they would learn my patterns and adjust accordingly. Some simple examples:

* Almost every ride that I get paid minimum, I one star.

* I won't accept pickups over 1.5 miles away.

* When I get a ping over 1.5 miles away that somehow get accepted, I cancel it.

* I frequently go offline, then go online later at a different location --> I drive for both --> give me pings before the other company does
 

heynow321

Well-Known Member
That is getting harder and harder to do with the oversaturation of drivers. I work early mornings (4am) and even that isn't enough. Plus the distance threshold isn't known. Do they have to be over 5 minutes away? 10 minutes?

It is very frustrating to find a place by yourself and then to check the rider app and find that an ant decided to park two blocks away from you and now you are screwed unless you move yet again (and having to constantly do this while wasting gas). Basically I don't even check the rider app anymore for Uber. I only check Lyft. Uber only gives me crap runs now anyway (for whatever reason) so there is no point.

It's really frustrating to get up at 3am, be one of only two dots within a two mile radius in an area where you know lots of good airport runs should be going out and to not get them or even to be able to pull up the rider app and watch in real time as they give the runs to other drivers.

In the end realize that if they decide not to give you the pings it doesn't matter what you do.



I want MONEY. I can't pay my car payment on ratings. If I am the closest driver for a good run then I want that run. Especially if I have been sitting in that area idle for one hour waiting for it.

I doubt it is that simple. The discrimination could also be proactive. For instance if you are 55 and it's night and there is a ping from a nightclub maybe it isn't given to you because "you are an old man/woman". You have to remember that for the most part Uber is ran and staffed by a bunch of 20-somethings.

It's really hard for me to believe other drivers think secret age discrimination against them is okay.

As for ratings, I have a 4.92 rating and I am having a hell of a time with Uber. In my case I suspect the discrimination is primarily due to my compact vehicle....and this brings up another issue. This information isn't readily available to us. We can see our rating sure, but we can't see where we stand with this other stuff and how it is effecting which pings are given to us and which aren't.
Do you understand that the passenger app is full of ghost cars ?
 
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