Uber & ATO in Court re GST

Larrikin

Active Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
If Uber loses - we drivers win - Uber will have to add the GST to the fares, we will effectively get a 10% increase as we won't have to remit the GST on the fare, just the GST the customer pays. It's then possible the ATO will pursue them for back payment of GST on all fares, which would put drivers who've been paying GST in a very interesting position.
If Uber wins, we drivers lose, as the ATO wil ensure / pursue drivers for the GST.
 

whocareaboutPAX

Well-Known Member
If Uber loses - we drivers win - Uber will have to add the GST to the fares, we will effectively get a 10% increase as we won't have to remit the GST on the fare, just the GST the customer pays. It's then possible the ATO will pursue them for back payment of GST on all fares, which would put drivers who've been paying GST in a very interesting position.
If Uber wins, we drivers lose, as the ATO wil ensure / pursue drivers for the GST.
No.

Uber is already charging GST there won't be any "winning" for drivers
 

Larrikin

Active Member
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  • #6
You're wrong - Uber is not charging GST, that's the whole point of the ATO's case. They have always declared Partners are not liable for GST until the $70,000 threshold is reached and let's face it, an Uber driver is highly unlikely to earn that each year (driving solely for Uber). They tell us to have an ABN and be GST registered to try and absolve themselves of any responsibility for the GST, as well as trying to ensure we are not seen as even subcontractors - hence the weasel word 'Partners'.
 

UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
If Uber loses - we drivers win - Uber will have to add the GST to the fares, we will effectively get a 10% increase as we won't have to remit the GST on the fare, just the GST the customer pays. It's then possible the ATO will pursue them for back payment of GST on all fares, which would put drivers who've been paying GST in a very interesting position.
If Uber wins, we drivers lose, as the ATO wil ensure / pursue drivers for the GST.
No.

Uber is already charging GST there won't be any "winning" for drivers
You're wrong - Uber is not charging GST, that's the whole point of the ATO's case. They have always declared Partners are not liable for GST until the $70,000 threshold is reached and let's face it, an Uber driver is highly unlikely to earn that each year (driving solely for Uber). They tell us to have an ABN and be GST registered to try and absolve themselves of any responsibility for the GST, as well as trying to ensure we are not seen as even subcontractors - hence the weasel word 'Partners'.
You're both wrong actually! Uber is not already charging GST, and a loss in this case would simply mean that things stay as they are, ie. drivers are the ones who will continue to pay GST from the first dollar. If Uber wins, then drivers will have to pay GST once the $75K threshold is reached. This case has nothing to do with whether or not Uber pays GST.
 

Larrikin

Active Member
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  • #8
I didn't say Uber was charging GST, quite the opposite. I might be a little slow, but my reading of the Fin Review story is it's all about the GST and tax.
 

UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
I didn't say Uber was charging GST, quite the opposite. I might be a little slow, but my reading of the Fin Review story is it's all about the GST and tax.
You're mistaken that there will be any change to what currently happens if Uber loses this case. There will be no increase in fares, drivers will continue to be liable for GST on the full fare, and the ATO will not be pursuing Uber for GST back payments. If Uber wins, then that is indeed a win for drivers because most will not be required to be registered for GST (ie, no BAS statements, etc), and the ATO would have to refund any GST that has already been paid.
 

Larrikin

Active Member
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  • #10
Well, at least you're sure of the possible outcomes, the only thing I would be sure about is that whoever loses will appeal. I still think my hypotheses are correct, we'll possibly know by week's end.
 

haldriver

Well-Known Member
Uber put the fare up 5c a km last April to cover GST so we are collecting GST.
We provide a service known as Taxi even though Uber say we don't have signs just like prostitutes provide a service even though they don't have signs.

Interesting fact is Uber argue that Taxis can't refuse a fare and we can as a point of difference.
 

everythingsuber

Well-Known Member
Cabs can refuse fares with good reason.
Maybe should be worded Uber can refuse for no reason but then do you get deactivated for too many cancellations?
 

UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
Well, at least you're sure of the possible outcomes, the only thing I would be sure about is that whoever loses will appeal. I still think my hypotheses are correct, we'll possibly know by week's end.
I don't see how your hypotheses could be correct. Uber has taken the ATO to court over it's guidance that drivers must pay GST from the first dollar, so I'm not sure how the court could possibly rule that Uber would need to backpay GST under any circumstances. If anything, if Uber wins they'll use that as justification for a ~8% price drop so that we'll make roughly the same as we do now.

Cabs can refuse fares with good reason.
Maybe should be worded Uber can refuse for no reason but then do you get deactivated for too many cancellations?
Yes taxi drivers can certainly refuse for specified reasons (too drunk, soiled, etc), but I'm sure we're all aware of taxi drivers refusing for illegal reasons (ie. fare too short, etc). Uber is slightly different, a driver can refuse to accept any job offered, but shouldn't cancel once it's been accepted.
 

Johnno351

Member
If gst is being charged then it must be paid, it isn't your money, it's collected from pax for the ATO. Uber can't change the rates depending on who is driving and who has gone over the 75k so everyone must pay.
The only way around it is to charge 11% less for the fare if not paying gst compared to someone who will pay gst. This would be near impossible to workout just so just like the taxi industry they make it from the first dollar.

Don't like it, buy a wood lathe and start a hobby business from home making bowls earning under $75k and don't charge gst on them.
 

UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
If gst is being charged then it must be paid, it isn't your money, it's collected from pax for the ATO. Uber can't change the rates depending on who is driving and who has gone over the 75k so everyone must pay.
The only way around it is to charge 11% less for the fare if not paying gst compared to someone who will pay gst. This would be near impossible to workout just so just like the taxi industry they make it from the first dollar.
Whether or not a sale includes GST depends upon the status of the service provider. If the service provider isn't registered for GST and isn't required to be registered for GST, then the service provider doesn't have to pay GST. There are ways to handle some providers being registered for GST and others not, and Uber would be well placed to implement something like this given that all the money flows through them.
 

Johnno351

Member
The service is in Australia, a Service as in Goods and service tax, so Gst is payable.
Uber aren't based here so claim it's not their service, it's the driver's so we have to pay. No point trying to get out of it, it is just something that has to be paid. What sucks is that uber pay so little that it hurts giving away the gst portion. Solution is to not work for Uber.
 

UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
The service is in Australia, a Service as in Goods and service tax, so Gst is payable.
Uber aren't based here so claim it's not their service, it's the driver's so we have to pay. No point trying to get out of it, it is just something that has to be paid. What sucks is that uber pay so little that it hurts giving away the gst portion. Solution is to not work for Uber.
The ATO are the ones who consider us to be the service providers, and they expect us to pay GST because of that.
 

Instyle

Well-Known Member
Moderator
You're mistaken that there will be any change to what currently happens if Uber loses this case. There will be no increase in fares, drivers will continue to be liable for GST on the full fare, and the ATO will not be pursuing Uber for GST back payments. If Uber wins, then that is indeed a win for drivers because most will not be required to be registered for GST (ie, no BAS statements, etc), and the ATO would have to refund any GST that has already been paid.
And individuals would have to repay all GST credits claim :biggrin:
 

Johnno351

Member
Whether or not a sale includes GST depends upon the status of the service provider. If the service provider isn't registered for GST and isn't required to be registered for GST, then the service provider doesn't have to pay GST. There are ways to handle some providers being registered for GST and others not, and Uber would be well placed to implement something like this given that all the money flows through them.
Charging the pax different amounts depending on driver wouldn't work,
The ATO are the ones who consider us to be the service providers, and they expect us to pay GST because of that.
We are the service provider, we are the one dropping pax at their destination.
Uber facilitate the service, we provide it.
 

haldriver

Well-Known Member
The full time driver who grosses over $75 000 (cause GST is on gross then you subtract costs) collects GST and the PT Driver who grosses less than $75 000 doesn't collect GST.
So PT drivers can undercut FT drivers. WooHoo. This is going to be fun.
 
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