Seattle passes minimum wage rate for Uber and Lyft drivers

SHalester

Well-Known Member
If you get a mortgage or refinance your current mortgage, you'll need a signature from someone like me.
sorry about your cancer drug; I've not reached that stage yet. Just drugs to reduce the size of a certain organ only guys have.....

So, yes, have bought 3 homes. Refi'd one; HELOC on that same one; sold 3 homes. Very very very aware of the require appraisals. The items I listed actually DISPLAY on the final appraisal report. Well, not the employment rate, not the minimum wage. And that was my point minimum wage page in that state has no bearing on home prices. and, even I granted it was, it would be so far down the list to have no effect.
A house across the street that is 'run down' will have an effect. The wage tacobell pays brand new employees, doesn't.

And, just to say, appraisal reports cost way too much since a computer does 99% of the work. Just saying.
 

bsliv

Well-Known Member
sorry about your cancer drug; I've not reached that stage yet. Just drugs to reduce the size of a certain organ only guys have.....

So, yes, have bought 3 homes. Refi'd one; HELOC on that same one; sold 3 homes. Very very very aware of the require appraisals. The items I listed actually DISPLAY on the final appraisal report. Well, not the employment rate, not the minimum wage. And that was my point minimum wage page in that state has no bearing on home prices. and, even I granted it was, it would be so far down the list to have no effect.
A house across the street that is 'run down' will have an effect. The wage tacobell pays brand new employees, doesn't.

And, just to say, appraisal reports cost way too much since a computer does 99% of the work. Just saying.
Wages definitely effect prices both directly and indirectly. There's a lot of wood in a house. Someone was paid to chop the tree. Someone was paid to drive the logs to the mill. The mill worker was paid to size the lumber. The tires on the truck were made by someone. The truck was made by a paid worker. The gloves the worker wore were made by a paid worker. The cloth of the gloves were grown, harvested, and milled by someone. Wages matter!!!

Those are examples of indirect wages effecting costs and therefore, prices. If a city's predominant wage is below the state's predominant wage, the city's housing will be less expensive. If the predominant buyer can't afford housing prices, the prices will drop until the property sells.

"I listed actually DISPLAY on the final appraisal report." That is incorrect. The standard form for a residential property is Fannie Mae form 1004. There is nothing for schools or crime rates. There is an area for market conditions and employment rate is a market condition.
 

Amos69

Well-Known Member
My first car I found in the High desert of Central Oregon. It cost me some elbow grease, a six pack of beer for my cousin who helped me get it going and the engine / fan belt to run it. The oil and grease were all pirated from John's Shop. It was a 1952 Willie's jeep that no ne could say how it got there. A great ride for a 12 yo. When I was 14 I bought a 74 F-150 that I crashed off a cliff.
 

SHalester

Well-Known Member
Wages definitely effect prices both directly and indirectly
I think the goal posts weren't just moved, they were REMOVED from the field of play. :laugh:

My point, only point, minimum wage has no effect on home appraisals or what a home lists and sells for. None at all. Zip. Zero. nada.

And if there is an effect there is no article, quote or book that says so.

Nuff said?¿? Moving (see what I did there?) on.
 

bsliv

Well-Known Member
I think the goal posts weren't just moved, they were REMOVED from the field of play. :laugh:

My point, only point, minimum wage has no effect on home appraisals or what a home lists and sells for. None at all. Zip. Zero. nada.

And if there is an effect there is no article, quote or book that says so.

Nuff said?¿? Moving (see what I did there?) on.
My point, which you replied to, was that eliminating minimum wages affect costs. Costs effect prices. If it costs less to build a house, housing prices will decrease. Not hard to understand.
 

Oscar Levant

Well-Known Member
Unintended consequences for sure. It creates new problems for elected officials to solve. Then those solutions create more problems and they must get re-elected to solve the new problems they helped create. Cycle continues.

Loudmouths keep a job forever.

“We need rent control so I can keep buying my $5 coffees and $1200 smartphones DERP”


In the big cities, rents are progressing much faster than inflation.

In 1976 I could rent an apartment, a two bedroom in L.A. for $200 or so. I know, because I was a renter in L.A throughout the 70s decade. Today, it would be $2500. In NYC, it as about $500 -$700 ( in the Village about $400 upper west side IIRC )

Adjusting for inflation, that $200 is not $2500.

Rent control will lead to apartment shortages. I'd favor rent subsidies for low wage earners.
 
Last edited:

melusine3

Well-Known Member
I would say it only benefits the casual uber driver and not the skilled ones. I drove 3 years in the Seattle area. $20 plus an hour is ok, but anything less than that is not a livable wage, once you deduct expenses.

Most drivers I know in Seattle stopped driving since the pandemic but I know a few who still do.

Any thoughts @K-pax?
Post automatically merged:


Not sure. Maybe that was something to do with the Pay per mile proposal they are trying to pass for all Washington state drivers.
Interesting you mention the pandemic. Has there been any data on drivers coming down with C19?
Post automatically merged:

Unintended consequences for sure. It creates new problems for elected officials to solve. Then those solutions create more problems and they must get re-elected to solve the new problems they helped create. Cycle continues.

Loudmouths keep a job forever.

View attachment 511459
View attachment 511460
View attachment 511461
View attachment 511462

“We need rent control so I can keep buying my $5 coffees and $1200 smartphones DERP”
AND afford the napalm for their Molotov cocktails they're throwing around at night.
Post automatically merged:

sorry about your cancer drug; I've not reached that stage yet. Just drugs to reduce the size of a certain organ only guys have.....

So, yes, have bought 3 homes. Refi'd one; HELOC on that same one; sold 3 homes. Very very very aware of the require appraisals. The items I listed actually DISPLAY on the final appraisal report. Well, not the employment rate, not the minimum wage. And that was my point minimum wage page in that state has no bearing on home prices. and, even I granted it was, it would be so far down the list to have no effect.
A house across the street that is 'run down' will have an effect. The wage tacobell pays brand new employees, doesn't.

And, just to say, appraisal reports cost way too much since a computer does 99% of the work. Just saying.
There's far more to an appraisal than just the computer! It's like Zillow, also uses the computer models of area house prices, but it can't look at comparables the way a human can. A person must inspect the property, including the surrounding neighborhood (is the neighborhood thriving or depressed, etc). Zillow will also change their estimate of a property once you've listed it at a different amount, and especially after it's sold, they'll enter the sold amount. Don't count on Zillow for an accurate estimate.
Post automatically merged:

One drug I'm on costs $3200 a week.


No, but as I said before, I know how to value property. Name a national bank and chances are very good they have asked me for my opinion on value. I have to determine if the current supply is normal, a shortage, or a surplus. I have to estimate demand. I have to determine typical marketing time. I have to compute physical, functional, and external depreciation. I often times have to compute the value of property based on the net income it produces. I create operating income statements. About 10 years ago, my name was read in court for nearly a hundred cases as an expert in valuing real estate. It involved HOA's and super-priority liens. I have a degree in economics. I know how to value property.


No, that would make me at least 100 years old.


Those well known "facts" that you replied with are not always applicable. I get paid $400 to develop my opinion on a piece of non-complex property. If you get a mortgage or refinance your current mortgage, you'll need a signature from someone like me. For your information, school districts and crime rates are seldom directly used by appraisers. My reports are between 20 and 30 pages long. School districts and crime rates are not mentioned once. An appraiser's opinion is always used in an appraisal. So, my opinion beats your facts when it comes to valuing property (real or personal). Any other questions?

If the cost of any product declines, the price of that product will also decline, given sufficient competition.
You can try the manufacturer of your cancer drug. Most companies have programs to help out those who can't afford medications (all medications) just look at their home page. If you need help looking this up, email me at leamca at yahoo dot com.
 
Last edited:

Lissetti

Rebel Honey Badger
Article Manager
Moderator
Interesting you mention the pandemic. Has there been any data on drivers coming down with C19
Not that I'm aware of. I mean I caught it but that was from my day job. A couple of Seattle drivers mentioned they thought they had it, but was unsure where they contracted it.
 

bsliv

Well-Known Member
Most companies have programs to help out those who can't afford medications
Four surgeries and about 1 1/2 months in a hospital along with not being able to work for 9 months wiped me out financially. About $400k in medical bills. I had to resort to Medicaid to pay the bills but now can't net more than $16,750 per year.

There's far more to an appraisal than just the computer!
That's for sure. I got my start with appraisers by converting offices from typewriters to pc's. Even back then people were saying Computer Valuation Models would replace appraisers. I don't see it happening anytime soon. There is almost always something atypical concerning the subject or a comparable sale. Condition, location, and views are just a few subjective variables CVM's have difficulties quantifying but can be critical to an accurate appraisal. Lenders understand this and is why they continue to hire appraisers.
 

Diamondraider

Well-Known Member
LOL. No, I understand the concept.
I was talking about the 53% margin, but I see you had total loss included.
I'm in the 80-85%.
53% and I wouldn't be driving.
And how does one achieve 85% when Uber’s lowest commission was 20%?

asking for my math teacher
Post automatically merged:

You must consider demand for labor. The supply could skyrocket but if demand goes even higher, wages will increase.


And what wage should uneducated, unskilled, new immigrants be paid? I say only fractionally better than they were paid in the native countries. If they are willing to work for $1 an hour, fine with me.


If you're going to adjust for inflation with wages, you must adjust for inflation with prices. Housing has slightly increased. Cars, gas, electronics, food, etc., have decreased, adjusted for inflation.


Figures don't lie but liars can figure. Its a basic economic law that the more expensive an item is the less of that item will be bought. Of course, there are exceptions, like monopolies and government interventions.


One shouldn't get pissed off doing math. If I determine an additional cashier will generate $200 in revenue in 40 hours of work, I'd be a fool to hire the cashier at more than $5.00 per hour. Doing that calculation shouldn't make anyone happy or pissed off. Its reality. The person who should be pissed off is the person willing to work for $5.00 per hour but instead gets $0.


Exactly. What do you suppose the market for butterfly counters is? Since we don't have any, its obviously below any minimum wage.


Correct in both statements. So why don't we let market forces determine the prevailing wage? If we impose a minimum wage in your depressed zone, McD's may abandon the market since they can't make a profit. Businesses abandoning a market is bad for the business and bad for the area. The area gets further depressed.

A high minimum wage hurts depressed areas the hardest, just like it hurts the low skilled workers in good markets the most. Those who the law was intended to help get hurt the worst.

A high minimum wage in an area that has full employment is mostly irrelevant. No one will accept a job at minimum wage if they can find one at a much higher wage.


Yep. Partly because they accept a wage that is below minimum and therefore illegal. Legal minimum wage earners pay no federal income tax. Help reduce the illegal under the table jobs by eliminating the minimum wage.


Obviously, that fits the definition of economically depressed. And a minimum wage will increase unemployment in these areas, just the opposite of what should be striven for. Full employment (due to no minimum) will dry up the supply of labor. A shortage of labor will drive up wages. This is the free market at work. Those in the bayou should not expect the same wage at those in downtown San Francisco.


The local markets determine the prevailing wage for labor, not what some executive in some remote location earns. Those who earn a high wage should be celebrated and emulated, not villainized and condemned. Jealousy is not a market force. Would a maximum wage be workable?


Why? Why would someone start a family if they can only earn low wages? Poor decisions by a very few people should not determine economic policy for a large nation.

If I'm willing to work for $x and someone is willing to pay me $x, how is it right for a third party to say no?

A high minimum wage increases unemployment for the least skilled. Its similar to removing the bottom rung of a ladder. The most skilled can leap above the bottom rung and can advance as they acquire more skill. The least skilled are stuck on the ground with no chance for advancement. Put the bottom rung back on the ladder. Eliminate the minimum wage.

Don't trust any politician, they want votes in the short term. On economic issues (minimum wage), listed to those educated and/or experienced in economic issues.

ps. I have a BA in Economics (40 years ago) and have worked as an economist for >25 years as an independent contractor. That's more education and experience in economics that most who make laws involving economics. In my opinion, the free market has, is, and can work again. Freedom over force almost every time is the right answer.

If $15 an hour is the right answer, shouldn't $150 an hour be a better answer?
Excellent responses. One minor correction though...”under the table” jobs rarely pay less to the worker than a minimum wage position.

An employer faces a 40%-60% additional expanse above the hourly rate if they hire legally. By paying cash, they can use some of that cost to pay “cash” workers a higher rate.
 
Last edited:

Amos69

Well-Known Member
I’m sorry to hear that!
Thanks for sharing. I wish you the best. ❤
I’m working on quitting cigarettes.
Quitting is tough, but it is possible. I am at 12 years now this month. You have to change your habits and develop something else to do during that time. I first got a cell phone during that time I was quitting so instead of a cancer stick I played with my new phone.
 

I will crack Lyft hacks

Well-Known Member
I've been a licensed real estate appraiser for >25 years.
I really wanted to get my appraisal license and never did. One off my regrets career wise. I absolutely love the field. Took the courses but never did the hours needed for the license.

Do you do it a bit still or it’s over?

In regard to real estate price, of course if build price is lowered, the selling price would be lower too. Personally I would be ok with legitimate unions representing the workers and negotiating rates rather than government setting it. But I personally wouldn’t want to have no minimum wage and no union, then the 1% would exploit us, I feel.

The 15 minimum wage is too high to be National. Cost of living is half or less in many places compared to C.A. Or N.Y
But I don’t think anybody should work for 1$ even if they are high schooler or uneducated no skilled.

I don’t think anybody working full time should make poverty level income. It should be 1$ above the local poverty rate at least, be it Union negotiated like those 5 EU countries or government mandated.

The minimum wage has not grown with inflation in the last 30 years or so, so it’s not “ High”. With a high minimum wage like 15 per hour for lowest living cost areas, I would agree with your view.

Im in Northern California, 15$ per hour means poverty here. Even with 15$ most fast food places can’t find proper staff.
 

bsliv

Well-Known Member
Even with 15$ most fast food places can’t find proper staff.
Sounds like there is a sufficient number of alternative jobs available to make the job market competitive. If McD's lowered their starting wage down to $12 per hour, it couldn't fill the positions. The market would force them to raise their wages until it matched the market wage.

On the other hand, if McD's had 2 job openings in Las Vegas and offered the minimum wage, they may get 50 applicants. That indicates the minimum wage is above the market wage. That will cause businesses to hire less than optimum which creates unemployment and stifles job growth.

I don’t think anybody working full time should make poverty level income. It should be 1$ above the local poverty rate at least, be it Union negotiated like those 5 EU countries or government mandated.
The federal poverty income is $12,060 per year. Working 40 hours per week, that's $5.80 per hour. While I probably wouldn't accept a job with that wage, I can envision others accepting it. For instance, a student living at home getting paid to review video games. The student would buy the games if they didn't have the job, so it saves the cost of the games. If it works for the student and it works for the student's employer, I have no right to stop them. If a retiree wants to drive strangers around town for peanuts, I have no right to stop them. If a group of employees want to organize and demand collective bargaining, I have no right to stop them.

Took the courses but never did the hours needed for the license.
Is it too late? Most appraisers will pay an intern. I think only 1500 hours over 2 years are required. Some appraisers work as employees but I think being an independent contractor is the way to go. Accept orders when you need the money and refuse orders when too busy or too lazy. One has to be comfortable working with numbers. Appraisers don't have to have great social skills. I think the average age for an appraiser is in the mid to upper 50's. They'll be retiring soon. Some states have reduced the education requirements but other states, like Nevada, still require a college degree. If the demand for appraisal services stays consistent and the supply of appraisers goes down, fees will go up.

I'm still licensed, still pay E&O insurance and still subscribe to MLS. But I'm afraid of the virus so I refuse up to 10 assignments per week. I did a couple of drive by's at the beginning of the year and a couple of reviews in the past few months. I spend a lot more time reading forum posts than working.
 

melusine3

Well-Known Member
Not that I'm aware of. I mean I caught it but that was from my day job. A couple of Seattle drivers mentioned they thought they had it, but was unsure where they contracted it.
Interesting. Seriously, there should be HUGE numbers when you think of the type of exposure. I'm happy you're better. Aren't you the writer?
Post automatically merged:

Quitting is tough, but it is possible. I am at 12 years now this month. You have to change your habits and develop something else to do during that time. I first got a cell phone during that time I was quitting so instead of a cancer stick I played with my new phone.
I quit while working at a hospital (high stress unit). I took 2 weeks off, got enough pain pills to last me round the clock for 2 weeks and chilled. I may have used patches, starting out with the largest and tapering off by cutting them up (I had no problems doing that, although some will tell you it's inadvisable) till I finished off the box. Interesting, incredible dreams while on nicotine patches. Subsequently, I continued to have cravings, but I reminded myself that they wouldn't last but a few minutes and they did. Those started decreasing in frequency. It was kind of hard being around smokers, but I was able to resist. That was my plan, and it worked for me.
 
Last edited:

Lissetti

Rebel Honey Badger
Article Manager
Moderator
Interesting. Seriously, there should be HUGE numbers when you think of the type of exposure.
Yes I'm sure there were huge numbers at my job, but it was hushed up of course. It quickly became an HR and company liability issue since many employees had been complaining about the one guy "Mike" with the strange cough no one had heard before. We were told not to be paranoid, since we had not had visitors or business travelers from China since early December. Mike just had a bad flu that was going around. 🙄

Then in the first week of March they realized they had a major problem and shut down all buildings, all campuses.

I'm happy you're better. Aren't you the writer?
Thanks I'm doing better. Still not 100% but I'm getting there. Yes I am a writer, but since I don't drive anymore, I don't write much here these days.
 

melusine3

Well-Known Member
In the big cities, rents are progressing much faster than inflation.

In 1976 I could rent an apartment, a two bedroom in L.A. for $200 or so. I know, because I was a renter in L.A throughout the 70s decade. Today, it would be $2500. In NYC, it as about $500 -$700 ( in the Village about $400 upper west side IIRC )

Adjusting for inflation, that $200 is not $2500.

Rent control will lead to apartment shortages. I'd favor rent subsidies for low wage earners.
They already have rent subsidies for low wage earners, it's handled by HUD. Section 8.
Post automatically merged:

Yes I'm sure there were huge numbers at my job, but it was hushed up of course. It quickly became an HR and company liability issue since many employees had been complaining about the one guy "Mike" with the strange cough no one had heard before. We were told not to be paranoid, since we had not had visitors or business travelers from China since early December. Mike just had a bad flu that was going around. 🙄

Then in the first week of March they realized they had a major problem and shut down all buildings, all campuses.


Thanks I'm doing better. Still not 100% but I'm getting there. Yes I am a writer, but since I don't drive anymore, I don't write much here these days.
Well, you must write somewhere! email me at [email protected] and let me know if you have a blog etc. I rarely come back here since I no longer drive, but I like to catch up on the old timers I remember from those days (2016, 2017 lol)
Post automatically merged:

I think the goal posts weren't just moved, they were REMOVED from the field of play. :laugh:

My point, only point, minimum wage has no effect on home appraisals or what a home lists and sells for. None at all. Zip. Zero. nada.

And if there is an effect there is no article, quote or book that says so.

Nuff said?¿? Moving (see what I did there?) on.
What has been happening in my home town is due to the low interest rates, EVERYONE is buying. Houses are going for well over asking, $10-20,000 over and getting multiple offers.
 

Amos69

Well-Known Member
They already have rent subsidies for low wage earners, it's handled by HUD. Section 8.
Post automatically merged:


Well, you must write somewhere! email me at [email protected] and let me know if you have a blog etc. I rarely come back here since I no longer drive, but I like to catch up on the old timers I remember from those days (2016, 2017 lol)
Post automatically merged:


What has been happening in my home town is due to the low interest rates, EVERYONE is buying. Houses are going for well over asking, $10-20,000 over and getting multiple offers.
You should experience the market here in Seattle. Just throw a dart at the target price and mark it up $30,000 and let the bidding wars begin.

We is Crazy!
 
Top