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Seattle is Dying

aspacepig

Well-Known Member
Tucker Carlson just posted this on his Facebook, so it's receiving national attention. Quite amazed that KOMO produced the documentary by the name of this thread. People must be really fed up. But bar getting rid of the socialist administrators in government I don't see things getting better.

 

Fozzie

Well-Known Member
Someone posted a link to that a couple of days ago on NextDoor.

That's part 3 of the series that discusses how people no longer feel safe, and the growing social problems here. Part 1 covered homelessness, and part 2 covered the problem of drug addiction(s).
 

SKuber

Well-Known Member
20190320_173652.jpg

Didn't read much after the title, but sounds good. Maybe there is hope for the rest of the state.
 

Direwolfismyspiritanimal

Well-Known Member
Omg, that story is so over dramatic. It's no surprise that Sinclair media would post such hyperbolic hysteria. They are right wing to the core. Of course, walking bow-tie with a spray on soul, Tucker Carlson, would promote it.

Seattle wants to think it's special but it's not. It's facing what any other mid-sized city, a formerly undiscovered gem, booming to a crazy degree for 10 years, would face. The fact is Seattle has changed, there is no going back. I have nostalgia for what it used to be too, but the future is forward.

The thing that makes Seattle a unique challenge is the insanely regressive tax system of the state and city. Washington state has the most regressive tax system of all 50 states and Seattle has the most regressive tax system of all cities in Washington.

The "danger" of Seattle is so over-blown. People here have no idea how good they have it. If it sucks so bad would those people please move away so the people that still appreciate it's good parts can enjoy it without their excessive pessimism.

Seattle - Living here is phenomenal.
Existing here is painful.
Stop existing and start living.
Those folks that don’t get out are missing out.
 

dimwit_driver

Well-Known Member
Unless you have lived in Seattle since the 80s or earlier I can't have a meaningful conversation with you about how the city has changed because you don't have a clue. This is not the place I grew up in. At all. In either 2 or 3 years, depending on a particular development that may or may not happen, I will sell my house and leave here for good.
 

Fozzie

Well-Known Member
Unless you have lived in Seattle since the 80s or earlier I can't have a meaningful conversation with you about how the city has changed because you don't have a clue. This is not the place I grew up in. At all. In either 2 or 3 years, depending on a particular development that may or may not happen, I will sell my house and leave here for good.
I hear you. I recently sold my home in Mountlake Terrace, so I no longer have a hard commitment to the region. Right now I spend 2 wks per month in Hawaii, and I'm thinking of moving there for a while after my current lease expires in Jan. Maybe a longer break from Seattle is what I need.
 

Direwolfismyspiritanimal

Well-Known Member
Unless you have lived in Seattle since the 80s or earlier I can't have a meaningful conversation with you about how the city has changed because you don't have a clue. This is not the place I grew up in. At all. In either 2 or 3 years, depending on a particular development that may or may not happen, I will sell my house and leave here for good.
Every place has changed since the 80's. If it hasn't changed it's probably a place with zero opportunity. I'm from the Midwest where towns are literally dying due to manufacturing moving overseas. I challenge anyone that has trouble with Seattle booming and becoming a big city move to an area that is actually dying with zero opportunities.

Anyone that was fortunate to grow up in an area with legitimate opportunities has no idea what's it like for people that grew up in areas that are actually dying/living 20-30 years in the past. My hometown has practically stayed the same since the eighties and there is a reason it hasn't grown or changed in any good way. No economic opportunities/good jobs or beauty like Seattle is surrounded by.

Seattle isn't dying, it's going through growing pains, like every single city that has grown and boomed.

I know people love to rag on Seattle. It has it's problems, for sure, but carrying on like Seattle is Kabul during the invasion of Afghanistan is absolutely hyperbolic hysteria. Tucker Carlson and Sinclair Media can join me at Dick's burger so I can shove some delicious hamberders down their throats.
 

Lissetti

Hufflepuff Honey Badger
Moderator
Author
Even my beloved Brooklyn is not the same as when I grew up. "EhhhYo....HowYaDoin.......

Has been replaced with Hipsters.
I'm looking at Jersey.....maybe Poughkeepsie, or Roseville CA.
 

Peter Vann

Well-Known Member
I watched the documentary. I would encourage everyone to watch it - hopefully before writing it off as "right-wing", lol. But I understand the fear some have of actually listening to opinions that challenge their beliefs. Much easier to engage in ad hominem name calling and hide your head in the sand. Hats off to Komo for airing this. One thing I liked about it is that it quoted the police who are in the thick of all the crime and drugs. Their message: let us do out jobs instead of hamstringing us. There are different points of view offered. One might come away still disagreeing with the conclusions of the documentary. That is fine, but its still worth watching. One clip that sums up the out of it, elitist, arrogant city council: a concerned citizen is expressing his concerns about the crime & squalor in his neighborhood. And all the city council members are looking down at their phones - ignoring him. He only has a short amount of time allotted to him to express his views. So he stops, waiting for the city council members to look up and listen to him - and asks them for their attention. One member looks up from her phone and says, "your time is still running, continue." Then goes back to her phone. They don't care.
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I know people love to rag on Seattle. It has it's problems, for sure, but carrying on like Seattle is Kabul during the invasion of Afghanistan is absolutely hyperbolic hysteria. Tucker Carlson and Sinclair Media can join me at Dick's burger so I can shove some delicious hamberders down their throats.
Carrying on like Seattle is Kabul - that is a straw man. No one made that claim in the documentary. the documentary relays how this guy was nabbed for selling meth right near the courthouse in Seattle. He was brought in, then released a short time later. Later he invaded this retirement home in Seatac and brutally raped this elderly woman. He had a long history of crimes and felonies - from his time in California. But here all he did was sell meth, so they let him go. Kabul? No. But we can certainly do better than this as a city.
 
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Direwolfismyspiritanimal

Well-Known Member
I watched the documentary. I would encourage everyone to watch it - hopefully before writing it off as "right-wing", lol. But I understand the fear some have of actually listening to opinions that challenge their beliefs. Much easier to engage in ad hominem name calling and hide your head in the sand. Hats off to Komo for airing this. One thing I liked about it is that it quoted the police who are in the thick of all the crime and drugs. Their message: let us do out jobs instead of hamstringing us. There are different points of view offered. One might come away still disagreeing with the conclusions of the documentary. That is fine, but its still worth watching. One clip that sums up the out of it, elitist, arrogant city council: a concerned citizen is expressing his concerns about the crime & squalor in his neighborhood. And all the city council members are looking down at their phones - ignoring him. He only has a short amount of time allotted to him to express his views. So he stops, waiting for the city council members to look up and listen to him - and asks them for their attention. One member looks up from her phone and says, "your time is still running, continue." Then goes back to her phone. They don't care.
Post automatically merged:



Carrying on like Seattle is Kabul - that is a straw man. No one made that claim in the documentary.
Interesting that you then make an ad hominem name calling attack on the city counsel by calling them arrogant and elitist. Maybe you should turn your pointer finger towards yourself.

I agree that they are out of touch and lost. I'm not going to defend their actions at all nor have I anywhere on this thread so don't think I am.

People pretending that Seattle is dying, like this documentary acts, because it's experiencing growing pains deserve to get a dramatic response back. They have no idea of what it's like to actually be in a dying city.
Even my beloved Brooklyn is not the same as when I grew up. "EhhhYo....HowYaDoin.......

Has been replaced with Hipsters.
I'm looking at Jersey.....maybe Poughkeepsie, or Roseville CA.
I have former coworkers that moved to Roseville. They love it!
 

Peter Vann

Well-Known Member
Interesting that you then make an ad hominem name calling attack on the city counsel by calling them arrogant and elitist. Maybe you should turn your pointer finger towards yourself.

I agree that they are out of touch and lost. I'm not going to defend their actions at all nor have I anywhere on this thread so don't think I am.

People pretending that Seattle is dying, like this documentary acts, because it's experiencing growing pains deserve to get a dramatic response back. They have no idea of what it's like to actually be in a dying city.
Except I provided a specific example of the arrogance and elitism of the city council - so the description is fair and accurate description of the city council, imo, and not an ad hominem. They are public servants, and their ignoring a concerned citizen definitely rises to the level of arrogance and elitism. You simply made a false straw man and made ad hominem attacks - without providing any examples. Nice try though -
 

Direwolfismyspiritanimal

Well-Known Member
Except I provided a specific example of the arrogance and elitism of the city council - so the description is fair and accurate description of the city council, imo, and not an ad hominem. They are public servants, and their ignoring a concerned citizen definitely rises to the level of arrogance and elitism. You simply made a false straw man and made ad hominem attacks - without providing any examples. Nice try though -
You want citations of how biased Tucker Carlson and Sinclair Media are? Lol.

If you want to consume your "facts" from those biased sources that's on you.

Do you have actual citations that "Seattle is Dying" or what? You really think that is a well chosen title for a documentary about the crime and growing pains every city goes through when they grow?

That is my issue with this documentary. It's hyperbolic sensationalism. Seattle isn't special and isn't going through anything unique and isn't dying by any stretch of the imagination.

Seattle changed, yes, how it has changed. But dying?! Come on now, get some perspective.
 

dimwit_driver

Well-Known Member
When I talk about change in Seattle since the 80s, I'm not simply talking about growth. Yes, everyplace has changed over time, and every place will continue to change over time. It's not just buildings, it's not just Amazon, although they are part of it. There has been a wholesale cultural shift in the city, which I notice in a myriad of ways on a daily basis. The homeless all over the place is part of it. The honking of horns just because people are hacked off, not for any safety reason, is part of it. The decimation and gentrification of the CD, and the exodus of the African American community is part of it. The completely bonkers Seattle city government would be several chapters in a book. It's all sorts of things, both little and big. The differences I'm talking about are closer to what Lissetti describes, where Brooklyn has gentrified, and the working class families that lived there are no longer welcome, and can't afford to live there anyway. I was born in the city of Seattle. I don't feel welcome there anymore. It's very hard to describe. If you've only lived in Seattle a few years you won't have seen the shifts.
 

Direwolfismyspiritanimal

Well-Known Member
When I talk about change in Seattle since the 80s, I'm not simply talking about growth. Yes, everyplace has changed over time, and every place will continue to change over time. It's not just buildings, it's not just Amazon, although they are part of it. There has been a wholesale cultural shift in the city, which I notice in a myriad of ways on a daily basis. The homeless all over the place is part of it. The honking of horns just because people are hacked off, not for any safety reason, is part of it. The decimation and gentrification of the CD, and the exodus of the African American community is part of it. The completely bonkers Seattle city government would be several chapters in a book. It's all sorts of things, both little and big. The differences I'm talking about are closer to what Lissetti describes, where Brooklyn has gentrified, and the working class families that lived there are no longer welcome, and can't afford to live there anyway. I was born in the city of Seattle. I don't feel welcome there anymore. It's very hard to describe. If you've only lived in Seattle a few years you won't have seen the shifts.
I totally agree with you. Gentrification has changed the city. It happens to every growing city, however. Transplants are more likely to honk their horns and since 60% of the Seattle population isn't even from Washington state, it makes sense there would be more honking. The homeless population is in crisis and whatever Seattle is doing is clearly not enough.

I will still take this city over an actual "dying" city any day, though. It's over-dramatic and sensational to say Seattle is dying, changing definitely, and not for the better, in a few ways.
 

Lissetti

Hufflepuff Honey Badger
Moderator
Author
The decimation and gentrification of the CD, and the exodus of the African American community is part of it.
Really good article I read on it a couple of years ago.



Since I'm not from here, I can only speak of Brooklyn.

Brooklyn has lost its sense of community. Its diversity. Its strength was the close and strong family bonds that helped contribute to our strong sense of community. We cared about our streets. Our neighborhoods. We knew our neighbors. I couldn't walk to the store without passing a shopkeeper or neighbor who knew my father, and my father's father. Likewise we knew of theirs.

This has all been replaced by middle to upper class Hipsters who want the "status" of living in a Brownstone and sitting out on the stoop on a nice day. Huh? Since when was the blue collar district a status symbol. Folks should check out an old Spike Lee joint called Crooklyn. That's the Brooklyn I remember. That sense of community is dead forever there.
 

Peter Vann

Well-Known Member
You want citations of how biased Tucker Carlson and Sinclair Media are? Lol.

If you want to consume your "facts" from those biased sources that's on you.

Do you have actual citations that "Seattle is Dying" or what? You really think that is a well chosen title for a documentary about the crime and growing pains every city goes through when they grow?

That is my issue with this documentary. It's hyperbolic sensationalism. Seattle isn't special and isn't going through anything unique and isn't dying by any stretch of the imagination.

Seattle changed, yes, how it has changed. But dying?! Come on now, get some perspective.
Again - rather than speak to the substance of the documentary, you bring up side issues - “tucker Carlson is biased!” Lol. Who isn’t.

That said, “Seattle is dying” is hyperbolic or perhaps sensational. But It grabs people’s attention. Actual citations ? The documentary highlights the people OD’ing in the streets. There were 359 fatal overdoses in 2016. My guess is similar or greater numbers in 217-18. But yeah - “Seattle is dying” may be hyperbole. Mea culpa. In spite of the title there is much to learn from watching the show - particularly the insight from the police.
 

MadTownUberD

The Trendy Transporter
Moderator
Interesting comment about hipsters gentrifying urban areas, @Lissetti . I think that's happening everywhere.

Madison isn't the most urban place in the world, but there have been several working class ish buildings on East Washington torn down and replace by high rise apartments featuring $2000+/month rent. These buildings have coffee shops, bars, fitness center, and music venues in their first floors. Young, single professionals (in my childhood we called them "yuppies") gladly pay this because they want to be in the heart of the night life. It's hilarious because they would just need to move a few miles out to cut their rent down significantly, but what's money to someone making $60,000 - $100,000 with no kids? Sometimes I pick up / drop off people who live in new ish apartments in Fitchburg; they've discovered the secret.

Milwaukee is even more illustrative. The historic third ward, a neighborhood just south of downtown, used to be home to factories and warehouses. Now it features upscale bistro style dining, coveted apartment dwelling, and craft breweries. I've driven Uber in Milwaukee maybe half a dozen times and the night life makes me chuckle.

Then of course you have Chicago and those old brick warehouses that have become "loft" apartments and breweries. I don't know much about Chicago though; it's a mystery to me that anyone would want to live there.
 

K-pax

Well-Known Member
Unless you have lived in Seattle since the 80s or earlier I can't have a meaningful conversation with you about how the city has changed because you don't have a clue. This is not the place I grew up in. At all. In either 2 or 3 years, depending on a particular development that may or may not happen, I will sell my house and leave here for good.
All my friends are leaving the state. Not for any politicial reason. All economic. Tech has made it unlivable. Regressive taxation, tolling, and the state existing to serve huge corporate interest always at the expense of individuals is screwing things up.

I haven’t seen the documentary, but I suspect it takes a miguided look at the problem (just from some conversations I’ve had with people who have recomended it to me). I suppose I’ll have to take a look to really comment specifically, but I see the wrong reaction entirely from some of the population. The homeless are seen as the problem, rather than why there are so many homeless. They’re in favor of just wiping the homeless away, like that will make them, as people, dissapear into some abyss out of sight and outnof mind, but nothing to really address why they’re there, and how to prevent the problem from getting worse.

seattle is increasingly turning the entire state into one giant Bellevue. A place for rich technocrats, bankers and real estate investors/developers to enjoy, but to keep the riff raff not in their strata away. They hem and haw day and night about the drug problem that they view to be exclusive to the lower classes, while they stand in line at the liqour store or weed shop to get their fix.

Gentrification is touching every nook and cranny of the state. You can’t even move more than an hour away from the city (where most of the work that pays over starvation wages is located) and be safe from it.

For me, I’m fine with the politics of the area for the most part. It’s a little bit annoying when there a Democratic president and all the protestors sit at home praying at their shrines to their political masters, but I love that we’re good on many social issues. I also love the mountains, lush forests, and all the other things I grew up with. What I don’t like is the statewide gentrification. Basically, an entire region that caters to the wealthy and completely let down everyone else. There are small token things done to make it look like they’re doing something... like for example, mandating thet new buildings have some affordable housing, but developers just build the fine into their cost of doing business, and totally ignore it.

Speaking of regressive taxation. With tolling and high gas taxes, who do people think are hit the hardest? The jet set? Nope! Someone working a $11/hr job, who has to choose between gas to get to work and eating lunch. I don’t even know how people can do it who are making that low of a wage. I make much more than that, and I am struggling in a very big way.

I often drive people in techie land who have never even been to any of the towns where the blue collar and service industry people are or have run to trying to escape the economic leviathan. They think the people who serve them coffee, give them
Food, mix them a drink, or drive them around must come from a void in outer space, and cease to exist once they’ve served them. They live in such a bubble where they think everyone is living large. I drove a guy (nice fellow, so don’t get me wrong) that has been doing business in Seattle for years, at least once a month, through 99 down to the airport. He was amazed that there even was an industrial area of Seattle. He thought it was all yachts and lambrigini clubs or something.
 
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Lissetti

Hufflepuff Honey Badger
Moderator
Author
Interesting comment about hipsters gentrifying urban areas, @Lissetti . I think that's happening everywhere.

Madison isn't the most urban place in the world, but there have been several working class ish buildings on East Washington torn down and replace by high rise apartments featuring $2000+/month rent. These buildings have coffee shops, bars, fitness center, and music venues in their first floors. Young, single professionals (in my childhood we called them "yuppies") gladly pay this because they want to be in the heart of the night life. It's hilarious because they would just need to move a few miles out to cut their rent down significantly, but what's money to someone making $60,000 - $100,000 with no kids? Sometimes I pick up / drop off people who live in new ish apartments in Fitchburg; they've discovered the secret.

Milwaukee is even more illustrative. The historic third ward, a neighborhood just south of downtown, used to be home to factories and warehouses. Now it features upscale bistro style dining, coveted apartment dwelling, and craft breweries. I've driven Uber in Milwaukee maybe half a dozen times and the night life makes me chuckle.

Then of course you have Chicago and those old brick warehouses that have become "loft" apartments and breweries. I don't know much about Chicago though; it's a mystery to me that anyone would want to live there.
I understand it's happening everywhere, but New York, due to history of being a beacon of hope for new immigrants had become a city where each neighborhood had its own little pocket of culture and identity brought over from their homelands. Most of that has been lost now. Replaced by people who just want to experience the status of living there and have no care of the pride and cultural history the neighborhood they now occupy, formerly had.
 

Peter Vann

Well-Known Member
All my friends are leaving the state. Not for any politicial reason. All economic. Tech has made it unlivable. Regressive taxation, tolling, and the state existing to serve huge corporate interest always at the expense of individuals is screwing things up.

I haven’t seen the documentary, but I suspect it takes a miguided look at the problem (just from some conversations I’ve had with people who have recomended it to me). I suppose I’ll have to take a look to really comment specifically, but I see the wrong reaction entirely from some of the population. The homeless are seen as the problem, rather than why there are so many homeless. They’re in favor of just wiping the homeless away, like that will make them, as people, dissapear into some abyss out of sight and outnof mind, but nothing to really address why they’re there, and how to prevent the problem from getting worse.

seattle is increasingly turning the entire state into one giant Bellevue. A place for rich technocrats, bankers and real estate investors/developers to enjoy, but to keep the riff raff not in their strata away. They hem and haw day and night about the drug problem that they view to be exclusive to the lower classes, while they stand in line at the liqour store or weed shop to get their fix.

Gentrification is touching every nook and cranny of the state. You can’t even move more than an hour away from the city (where most of the work that pays over starvation wages is located) and be safe from it.

For me, I’m fine with the politics of the area for the most part. It’s a little bit annoying when there a Democratic president and all the protestors sit at home praying at their shrines to their political masters, but I love that we’re good on many social issues. I also love the mountains, lush forests, and all the other things I grew up with. What I don’t like is the statewide gentrification. Basically, an entire region that caters to the wealthy and completely let down everyone else. There are small token things done to make it look like they’re doing something... like for example, mandating thet new buildings have some affordable housing, but developers just build the fine into their cost of doing business, and totally ignore it.

Speaking of regressive taxation. With tolling and high gas taxes, who do people think are hit the hardest? The jet set? Nope! Someone working a $11/hr job, who has to choose between gas to get to work and eating lunch. I don’t even know how people can do it who are making that low of a wage. I make much more than that, and I am struggling in a very big way.

I often drive people in techie land who have never even been to any of the towns where the blue collar and service industry people are or have run to trying to escape the economic leviathan. They think the people who serve them coffee, give them
Food, mix them a drink, or drive them around must come from a void in outer space, and cease to exist once they’ve served them. They live in such a bubble where they think everyone is living large. I drove a guy (nice fellow, so don’t get me wrong) that has been doing business in Seattle for years, at least once a month, through 99 down to the airport. He was amazed that there even was an industrial area of Seattle. He thought it was all yachts and lambrigini clubs or something.
Watch the documentary with an open mind. Separate from the issues you highlight on cost of living, effect of tech industry on affordability, attitude of tech workers etc. there is still a big problem with homeless, drugs and property crimes. It’s a hard hitting look at the issue and I have a lot of respect for the cops that are trying to deal with this and are expressing their opinions.

I do not think the message from the documentary is that they want to “wipe the homeless away”. If anything, it’s the political leadership and local activists who don’t seem to give a rip that people are dying in the streets , whose attitude toward the cops is that they’re the enemy.
 
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