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Reporting Ubers Upfront Pricing to the FTC

Should uber be reported for fraud?

  • Yes

    Votes: 31 83.8%
  • No

    Votes: 6 16.2%

  • Total voters
    37

nameless313

Active Member
If drivers want to make uber stop this ripoff that effects us all more than some even realize, follow this step by step and report uber to the ftc!

IF WE ALL TAKES 5 MINUTES TO REPORT THIS TO FTC THEY WOULD START AN INVESTIGATION IMMEDIATELY, and THERE WILL BE CHANGE.

ITS the ftc, the don't play around with deceptive business practices.

I hope my report helps everyone's future driving.

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov

1. You go there. This is the official ftc site.
2. File complaint under "making money, jobs", under this tab I selected business opportunities. (there are a few that are relevant)
3. Next tab I click that " I initiated contact"
4. Next tab, I guestimated what their cut has been of my earning this year in this tab. With was about 25000 to my knowledge.
5. Next tab is company info, I used the green light location in Michigan for the company location and "uber" for everything else in company field.
5. Next tab is contact into. I used my real name and Phone number address etc.
6. I detailed how upfront pricing is not a real fixed percentage to us. That it was always more than what they show on our app. And that they conrol the app completely and hide this real price.
7. That was it! If this helps it was well with it, in detail, step by step!!
 

DocT

Well-Known Member
Moderator
I don't see how this would assist Drivers. We have agreed to the TOS to be paid a percentage of the mileage + time + incentives (boosts, quests, surges).

This report would need to be filed by Riders. They are the ones being overcharged. But then again, with the pax hitting that accept button, they agree to the upfront fare price.

I totally agree with you that this is deceptive and hurts us drivers as we are underpaid for those upfront fares.
 

Jesusdrivesuber

Well-Known Member
I don't see how this would assist Drivers. We have agreed to the TOS to be paid a percentage of the mileage + time + incentives (boosts, quests, surges).

This report would need to be filed by Riders. They are the ones being overcharged. But then again, with the pax hitting that accept button, they agree to the upfront fare price.

I totally agree with you that this is deceptive and hurts us drivers as we are underpaid for those upfront fares.
I'd argue that the upfront pricing is based off the miles, time and incentives kept by uber and therefore part of the advertised 20-25-28%, now, if they were to add another bogus charge, like booking or base fare then they would be off the hot water, problem is that upfront scales with ride length and the charge cannot be made to scale without tapping into miles, time or incentives.

It's also asking for a revolt to give themselves another fee officially and not raising the driver's gains, this is how they managed to sneak themselves a scalable raise unnoticed.
 

steveK2016

Well-Known Member
I'd argue that the upfront pricing is based off the miles, time and incentives kept by uber and therefore part of the advertised 20-25-28%, now, if they were to add another bogus charge, like booking or base fare then they would be off the hot water, problem is that upfront scales with ride length and the charge cannot be made to scale without tapping into miles, time or incentives.

It's also asking for a revolt to give themselves another fee officially and not raising the driver's gains, this is how they managed to sneak themselves a scalable raise unnoticed.
Just because you could argue it doesn't make you right.

Unfortunately, Uber doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong with this. I hate it as much as the next guy. If The pax is paying more, I should be earning more...

...however, the way our agreement with Uber says we are paid based on the rate table. They do not set any perimeters mandating that pax must be charged based on the same rate table.

If I'm wrong, please advise on what page of the Driver Contract that it does that. I will gladly admit to being wrong in the case, if I were.


I used to be in business for myself providing web, graphics and marketing services to clients. I charged them a set rate, then I eventually realized I could outsource jobs that I couldn't do myself. I found Independent Contractors to fulfill such jobs. They agreed to my pay rate. What I charged my customer had no barring on what I paid them. If they ended up being under budget, I pocketed the difference and made better margin on the sale.


If you look at the rate in the pax app and click on the (i) icon, it makes this statement:

Your fare will be the price presented before the trip or based on the rates below and other applicable surcharges and adjustments.
So they are telling the pax that they may be charged two different ways. If the driver takes a longer route and goes over the up front fare price, then it's based on the standard rate table in your city. If you, the IC, happens to fulfill the job in half the time then they quoted, then Uber pockets the difference.

I don't like it as a driver, but I definitely see no real issue with this method of billing on an FTC complaint level. This is actually pretty standard for any business who outsource to independent contractors. Sometimes your IC is good and does the job faster than anticipated, leaving you with better margins. Sometimes you get an IC that sucks and goes over budget.
 

Sloven1

Member
Maybe you would just need to show several actual trips where the price discrepancy between the rider's and driver's invoice is specifically listed as the fare on both. I doubt Uber shows the price difference on the rider's invoice as a miscellaneous charge.
Idk? Just a passing possibly ignorant thought.
 

nameless313

Active Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
It is fraud. That's why after every trip ask the passenger how much they paid, contact Support. They will give you the DIFFERENCE owed.
No-one should have to do this after every trip.

I agreed to receive all of the fare I generate after Uber takes 28% excluding the booking fee. The riders agreement is not our agreement. We are all owes money or they would hand it over so easily.
 

shiftydrake

Well-Known Member
Ok I'm going to back up what an earlier post stated.......you agreed to a certain rate table in your market to be paid so much per minute and so much per mile minus booking fee and also minus Uber's commission..

Now what Uber charges the pax is between Uber and the pax the price the pax pays is ANOTHER contract between Uber and the pax that you the driver are not part of....

Would be the same as if I went to Lowe's or Home Depot and paid to have a deck installed on my home......say I paid $2200 to Lowe's......they passed work on to a contracted installer.....the installer came out and surveyed my home then went back to Lowe's and billed them for supplies and labor to the amount of $1875..........so in that instance Lowe's just made/profited $325 just for them being the "middleman"......and the original contract holder between me and Lowe's and also to collect the total $$ from me.......now could I b!tch and say the contractor did it for $1875 why did I get charged $2200?......I could but wouldn't make a difference could the contractor file with FTC for fraud? ......could but wouldn't make any difference and they couldn't get any more!!!!

It's the exact same thing Uber is doing....exactly the same process nothing illegal or fraudulent or scamming . Uber in the dealings with pax is just smart and has 2 customer contracts.......1 with the pax........and 1 with the driver that actually deals with pax and does the ride....

Contract law.......Google it
 

nameless313

Active Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
I am familiar with the way sub-contracting works. This isn't Lowe's.

All of our costs are on us here in the driver world and what they are taking with upfront pricing is unreasonable to me. I will not allow them to take this much of my income and have this much control to change contracts at will, weekly if they want, contract that we don't sign and have no choice to argue. Lowe's doesn't do that. I haven't given uber a single ride in over a week. That is the first time in a full year I haven't and I feel a lot better...

If the report to ftc holds no weight than great for them. They are still taking way too much and diminishing paying us surge with it as well. Good luck you guys.
 

steveK2016

Well-Known Member
Just because you could argue it doesn't make you right.

Unfortunately, Uber doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong with this. I hate it as much as the next guy. If The pax is paying more, I should be earning more...

...however, the way our agreement with Uber says we are paid based on the rate table. They do not set any perimeters mandating that pax must be charged based on the same rate table.

If I'm wrong, please advise on what page of the Driver Contract that it does that. I will gladly admit to being wrong in the case, if I were.


I used to be in business for myself providing web, graphics and marketing services to clients. I charged them a set rate, then I eventually realized I could outsource jobs that I couldn't do myself. I found Independent Contractors to fulfill such jobs. They agreed to my pay rate. What I charged my customer had no barring on what I paid them. If they ended up being under budget, I pocketed the difference and made better margin on the sale.


If you look at the rate in the pax app and click on the (i) icon, it makes this statement:



So they are telling the pax that they may be charged two different ways. If the driver takes a longer route and goes over the up front fare price, then it's based on the standard rate table in your city. If you, the IC, happens to fulfill the job in half the time then they quoted, then Uber pockets the difference.

I don't like it as a driver, but I definitely see no real issue with this method of billing on an FTC complaint level. This is actually pretty standard for any business who outsource to independent contractors. Sometimes your IC is good and does the job faster than anticipated, leaving you with better margins. Sometimes you get an IC that sucks and goes over budget.
I am familiar with the way sub-contracting works. This isn't Lowe's.

All of our costs are on us here in the driver world and what they are taking with upfront pricing is unreasonable to me. I will not allow them to take this much of my income and have this much control to change contracts at will, weekly if they want, contract that we don't sign and have no choice to argue. Lowe's doesn't do that. I haven't given uber a single ride in over a week. That is the first time in a full year I haven't and I feel a lot better...

If the report to ftc holds no weight than great for them. They are still taking way too much and diminishing paying us surge with it as well. Good luck you guys.
You do agree to the terms of service every time you log on and accept a ping. If you dont agree, you are free to not log onto the app nor accept a ping. You are independent and free, theres no penalty for you to walk away from the contract if you no longer accept the rates.

Its that easy.

Uber has and can set perimeters for access to their app and their massive market share. Do they have most, if not all, of the control? Yes.

You are free to pursuit your own market share in the ridesharing industry, but note that youll need your own commercial liability insurance as well. Youll also see how difficult it will be to take back any reasonable market share from Uber. JUNO is trying, but they have about $900,000,000 to work with.

I dont know you nor your capacity of acquire working capital, but good luck if thats the route you want to go.
 
Last edited:

MSUGrad9902

Well-Known Member
Paragraph 4 of the contract between you and uber covers fees and payments. 4.1 says you get paid the per mile and per minute rate less the % to uber. It does not say you are paid a % of what is charged to the pax. You want Uber to re-negotiate your agreement with them take it up with Uber. Good luck.
 

shiftydrake

Well-Known Member
Paragraph 4 of the contract between you and uber covers fees and payments. 4.1 says you get paid the per mile and per minute rate less the % to uber. It does not say you are paid a % of what is charged to the pax. You want Uber to re-negotiate your agreement with them take it up with Uber. Good luck.
Oh look ANOTHER member stating what I have been saying that makes like 5 or 6....it's not fraud,cheating,scamming, theft or anything else other drivers have and will continue to claim.....
 

nameless313

Active Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Omg ok ok... Alright no it does not say that we get paid off of what pax pays...... Still... If there is ever a reason to file a claim... The process is illustrated above!! For whenever something can be proven.


And for the record. Ask pax how much ride total was and the contact Support. They will pay the difference.
 

steveK2016

Well-Known Member
Omg ok ok... Alright no it does not say that we get paid off of what pax pays...... Still... If there is ever a reason to file a claim... The process is illustrated above!! For whenever something can be proven.


And for the record. Ask pax how much ride total was and the contact Support. They will pay the difference.
Please show screenshots of that working. How often are you able to get your pax to sit and wait for their costs to processes, screenshot and give to you?
 

Jesusdrivesuber

Well-Known Member
Just because you could argue it doesn't make you right.
We will see what happens in court, they are starting to be taken to court already.

What I said stands solid, it's based off a number governed by a fixed percentage, if you acquire money for miles or time off it's use, it is to be split accordingly, not a bogus imaginary charge they can make as they go.
 

steveK2016

Well-Known Member
We will see what happens in court, they are starting to be taken to court already.

What I said stands solid, it's based off a number governed by a fixed percentage, if you acquire money for miles or time off it's use, it is to be split accordingly, not a bogus imaginary charge they can make as they go.
Question: Have you actually read the contract that you, an independent contractor, signed with Uber?

Alright, well let's go ahead and take the opportunity to do so together...

To access the the PDF yourself, log into partners.uber.com, go to PROFILE, then on the right side (on PC, bottom on Mobile) and click on "RASIER Technology Services Agreement December 10 2015" <--- that is also a link to the document, not sure if you can access it without being logged into your Uber Partner site.

Page 7 said:
Fare Calculation and Your Payment. You are entitled to charge a fare for each instance of completed Transportation Services provided to a User that are obtained via the Uber Services (“Fare”), where such Fare is calculated based upon a base fare amount plus distance (as determined by Company using location-based services enabled through the Device) and/or time amounts, as detailed at www.uber.com/cities for the applicable Territory (“Fare Calculation”). You acknowledge and agree that the Fare provided under the Fare Calculation is the only payment you will receive in connection with the provision of Transportation Services, and that neither the Fare nor the Fare Calculation includes any gratuity. You are also entitled to charge User for any Tolls, taxes or fees incurred during the provision of Transportation Services, if applicable. You: (i) appoint Company as your limited payment collection agent solely for the purpose of accepting the Fare, applicable Tolls and, depending on the region and/or if requested by you, applicable taxes and fees from the User on your behalf via the payment processing functionality facilitated by the Uber Services; and (ii) agree that payment made by User to Company (or to an Affiliate of Company acting as an agent of Company) shall be considered the same as payment made directly by User to you.
They specifically say you are paid on a base fare plus distance and time. No where does it say you are paid 75-80% of the Fare the pax is charged.

Page 7 said:
In addition, the parties acknowledge and agree that as between you and Company, the Fare is a recommended amount, and the primary purpose of the pre-arranged Fare is to act as the default amount in the event you do not negotiate a different amount. You shall always have the right to: (i) charge a fare that is less than the pre-arranged Fare; or (ii) negotiate, at your request, a Fare that is lower than the prearranged Fare (each of (i) and (ii) herein, a “Negotiated Fare”). Company shall consider all such requests from you in good faith. Company agrees to remit, or cause to be remitted, to you on at least a weekly basis: (a) the Fare less the applicable Service Fee; (b) the Tolls; and (c) depending on the region, certain taxes and ancillary fees. If you have separately agreed that other amounts may be deducted from the Fare prior to remittance to you (e.g., vehicle financing payments, lease payments, mobile device usage charges, etc.), the order of any such deductions from the Fare shall be determined exclusively by Company (as between you and Company).
The wording of negotiate seems a bit ambiguous for these purposes as we cannot negotiate a price with the pax, in a sense. I believe by this line it basically means that you can negotiate for a longer trip, stopping at a gas station, grocery store or making a detour that extends your trip beyond the Pre-Arranged Fare (Up Front Pricing). By making such changes based on negotiations with the pax, you increase the amount they owe you.

Page 7 said:
Changes to Fare Calculation. Company reserves the right to change the Fare Calculation at any time in Company’s discretion based upon local market factors, and Company will provide you with notice in the event of changes to the base fare, per mile, and/or per minute amounts that would result in a change in the recommended Fare. Continued use of the Uber Services after any such change in the Fare Calculation shall constitute your consent to such change.
Thought that was interesting as well.
 

Go4

Well-Known Member
Thanks steveK2016, when I started I thought it was 75%-80% of the fare minus the "booking fee" too. Because of your help (and Shangster's) I know that just isn't true.

Pax fare = whatever Uber wants to charge. Driver pay = 75%-80% of miles plus time minus Uber's "booking fee"

I've said it before and will continue to say Thank yo. You guys who help other drives are fantastic!
 

autofill

Well-Known Member
"You acknowledge and agree that the Fare provided under the Fare Calculation is the only payment you will receive in connection with the provision of Transportation Services, and that neither the Fare nor the Fare Calculation includes any gratuity. You are also entitled to charge User for any Tolls, taxes or fees incurred during the provision of Transportation Services, if applicable. You: (i) appoint Company as your limited payment collection agent solely for the purpose of accepting the Fare, applicable Tolls and, depending on the region and/or if requested by you, applicable taxes and fees from the User on your behalf via the payment processing functionality facilitated by the Uber Services; and (ii) agree that payment made by User to Company (or to an Affiliate of Company acting as an agent of Company) shall be considered the same as payment made directly by User to you."


Uber (company) is just a payment collection agent between you and the pax (user). Uber has no rights to keep the difference of the fare.
 

steveK2016

Well-Known Member
"You acknowledge and agree that the Fare provided under the Fare Calculation is the only payment you will receive in connection with the provision of Transportation Services, and that neither the Fare nor the Fare Calculation includes any gratuity. You are also entitled to charge User for any Tolls, taxes or fees incurred during the provision of Transportation Services, if applicable. You: (i) appoint Company as your limited payment collection agent solely for the purpose of accepting the Fare, applicable Tolls and, depending on the region and/or if requested by you, applicable taxes and fees from the User on your behalf via the payment processing functionality facilitated by the Uber Services; and (ii) agree that payment made by User to Company (or to an Affiliate of Company acting as an agent of Company) shall be considered the same as payment made directly by User to you."


Uber (company) is just a payment collection agent between you and the pax (user). Uber has no rights to keep the difference of the fare.
You appointed them to collect on the fare that you agreed to be compensated for: base fare + miles + time.

The second highlighted note is basically to cover their method of 1099 us the entire gross fare and us subtracting booking and service fees as an business expense.

We agreed to ubers pay table, on the addendum contract. Pax agrees to their set of rules in their service agreement.

As i said, id like to get paid more too but an ftc complaint wont go far but im sure any attorney would be fine to represent you for an upfront and nonrefundable retainer fee.

Now this doesnt change public pressure that could be put on Uber, but drivers are what? 150,000 deep? You think the average pax really cares if their uber driver is paid well or not? Some might, but if #DeleteUber didnt work when they had the motives to make it work, why would any other form of protest work if they dont have a stake in the race?
 
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