Question- Has Uber cheated you out of a fare either by zero out or adjusting a fare?

Has Uber made accounting errors on your payment statements such as zero out fares or adjustments?


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    57

FAC

Well-Known Member
This post is seeking information, asking for advice, and just plain b1tch1ng. Didn't know what forum to put it in so chose advice.

Issue:
It appears Uber is skimming tens of millions of dollars from their drivers. Please read on and reply if you agree, disagree, have other sources of data, or think my conclusions are inaccurate.

If you find my information accurate, I'd appreciate any ideas or suggestions of what to do about this issue.

Summary:

As a newbie driver, I was given great advice to double check my statements because Uber is known to zero out fares or adjust them without notifing the driver.

After a little research and calculations, it's likely Uber is skimming between $60 million (based on 1% of accounting errors) - $182 million (based on 3% of accounting errors) from their drivers.

See details and sources below. I've included links to all my sources. If anyone has better or more recent data please reply.

Note: my research and conclusion is just about not paying fares. I'd be interested to know if people experienced uber not paying tolls or other expenses it promises to pay.

Background

On April 4, after dropping off a pax I noticed the fare was $0. I took a screenshot of it and noticed uber support. Didn't get an answer but noticed the $0 ride was removed from my driving history. so I contacted the Denver office support. I finally got responses from both the main support and Denver support assured me my account was credited $7.54 for the fare. I was also told that the fare will be updated in my history within 24-48hrs. I completely forgot about the issue until I got the advice to always check my pay statements. I did, and there was no payment of $7.54 I was promised that was credited. (Also the fare still wasn't in my history).

Contacted support again by replying to the email from support stating my account was credited and my history will be updated so support would have the entire email thread. Got immediate canned response this matter was resolved. Opened another help ticket again reporting my missing fare. I was told again my account has been updated and the fare will be in my history. I was given a link that shows my correct fare but it's not in my history. The response then stated issue closed by saying issue resolved. (No more emails from support only web based communicating). I got the option agree or disagree with resolution. I disagreed. I wanted to know why two other people told me my account was credited when it was not. I also wanted to know what measures are in place so this doesn't happen again. Also wanted to know when I will receive my payment. No response as of now.

How many other drivers losing out on fares?
Got to thinking, if a mentor told me uber is known to zero out fares and this happened to me on my second pay statement, how many other drivers are getting ripped off by either not being reimbursed for tolls or for uber adjusting fares or zero out fares.

Then I started to do some research and played with some numbers. Uber being a private company it's challenging to find hard data on them. But got some good info from reliable sources. What I learned is this:
Playing with the Numbers
Taking the average trip cost of $10.70 then subtracting the commission and rider safety fee---
I did some calculations:
$10.70
(2.68) 25% commission
($1.95 ) Denver fee could be different elsewhere.
---------
$6.07 owed to rider

Now let's assume Uber accounting zero out fares 3% of the time:
30 million fares (3% of 1 billion fares)
*
6.07
--------
$182.1 million dollars skimmed off uber drivers

Even if this happens just 1% of the time that is $60.7 million dollars being skimmed off uber riders.

Then I dug a little deeper and learned Uber is one of the highest valued companies but pays virtually nothing in taxes. Only taxes are paid by drivers. see: Forbes Video 12/30/2015- Uber Complex Business Model to Avoid Taxes.

Advice I'm Seeking
Many posts on this forum discusses issues drivers face (along with other valuable information and tips). While the issues are real and important they are not unlawful. What I discovered is potential skimming aka theft of tens of millions of dollars from Uber's "Partners". I am not ok with this! But I'm just a single driver of approx 327,000 active drivers. (That information was tough to find too). see Business Insider 10/24/15

Obviously filing a complaint with the BBB does nothing. They have nearly a thousand complaints and have a F rating. see Uber - BBB Review

now, the only obvious solution to me is to file a complaint with the attorney general. So I'm asking for other ideas and support of you think I'm on target.

So my question is how many other Uber drivers have experienced discrepancies in their pay statements. Maybe my conclusions are off. Maybe I'm making a big deal when there is nothing there. But my gut is telling me I'm not the only one who Uber's accounting cheated a driver. If I'm right, then I believe action must be done.
Does anyone have any ideas, feedback, observations?
 

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5 Star Guy

Well-Known Member
I see your point, however again Travass has this scheme setup so everyone is an individual. Everyone needs to check their statements, use a mileage tracker app for taxes and stay on top of any errors. I'm not sure this is intentional, it could be another class action though. :cool: [My understanding is there needs to be enough drivers complaining, with proof of the errors being made and not fixed in a reasonable amount of time. If you have all of that I believe the AG would look into it. Then I'd get a lawyer. :cool:]
 

Maderacopy

Active Member
When I first started driving I noticed adjustments to my fares so I decided to snapshot each one. When I noticed my next one being adjusted I sent them an email stating that if anymore were adjusted without letting me know or give me a reason I was going to pursue legal action. It is just like adjusting someone's time punch. If you do there better be a reason and the employee better know about it. I didn't happen again. After my initial month they have been very good and I've had to make a few fare adjustments due to my mistake and they gladly did it.
 

KevRyde

Well-Known Member
After 3000+ rides on Uber and 1,400+ on Lyft, I've only ever spotted one zeroed out fare on Uber - the screenshot below explains what happened - and I track everything like a hawk on both platforms. I've actually found more errors on Lyft, and their customer service is even worse than Uber's. Oh and FYI there really is no Uber Denver online support group, so know that even e-mails to [email protected] get routed to the generic [email protected] [offshore] queue.

upload_2016-4-20_17-38-33.png
 

FAC

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
5 Star Guy. Just because we are individual contractors, doesn't protect Travaas from a class action suit. This would be a federal case because plantiffs and uber cross state lines. Then there are only four requirements that I believe is met. Just depends on how many people notice their fares are being adjusted or zero out. Personally I forgot about it. Now I'm keeping a close eye on it.
  1. enough people harmed, typically in the hundreds or thousands. As I mentioned finding the actual number of active uber drivers is difficult I've found numbers between 160k to 327k . On the conservative side, if 1% of 160k drivers had adjustments without cause or zero out fares that's 1,600. Doesn't take many people to start a class action. Just a small group and it grows from there with right lawyer
  2. Same claims and factual issues. That criteria is met. Issue is not getting paid for the work we were contracted to do.
  3. Typical Claims - not exactly sure the difference between this and #2
  4. Fair Represention - the named parties fairly represent the entire people harmed.


It doesn't matter if the accounting errors are intentional or not. Like I mentioned above even if 1% of the fares are not properly paid that's tens of millions dor Uber who doesn't pay tax on it anyway. I can't imagine how it could even be possible to say a fare adjustment was unintentional. Someone has to go in there and adjust your fare. I could see how my $0 fare could be a technology unintended matter but the fact I had two people assure me account was credited when in fact it wasn't is incompetence or fraud.

I'm serious about taking action on this matter. Travaas being a jerk to his drivers is one thing. It's another thing if he is embezzling funds from them. That's why i started this post. I'm interested in knowing who else had adjustments made without notice and/or were not paid for a fare. It's not ok.

If you haven't noticed I got some juice on this issue!
 

5 Star Guy

Well-Known Member
5 Star Guy. Just because we are individual contractors, doesn't protect Travaas from a class action suit. This would be a federal case because plantiffs and uber cross state lines. Then there are only four requirements that I believe is met. Just depends on how many people notice their fares are being adjusted or zero out. Personally I forgot about it. Now I'm keeping a close eye on it.
  1. enough people harmed, typically in the hundreds or thousands. As I mentioned finding the actual number of active uber drivers is difficult I've found numbers between 160k to 327k . On the conservative side, if 1% of 160k drivers had adjustments without cause or zero out fares that's 1,600. Doesn't take many people to start a class action. Just a small group and it grows from there with right lawyer
  2. Same claims and factual issues. That criteria is met. Issue is not getting paid for the work we were contracted to do.
  3. Typical Claims - not exactly sure the difference between this and #2
  4. Fair Represention - the named parties fairly represent the entire people harmed.


It doesn't matter if the accounting errors are intentional or not. Like I mentioned above even if 1% of the fares are not properly paid that's tens of millions dor Uber who doesn't pay tax on it anyway. I can't imagine how it could even be possible to say a fare adjustment was unintentional. Someone has to go in there and adjust your fare. I could see how my $0 fare could be a technology unintended matter but the fact I had two people assure me account was credited when in fact it wasn't is incompetence or fraud.

I'm serious about taking action on this matter. Travaas being a jerk to his drivers is one thing. It's another thing if he is embezzling funds from them. That's why i started this post. I'm interested in knowing who else had adjustments made without notice and/or were not paid for a fare. It's not ok.

If you haven't noticed I got some juice on this issue!
I agree, I meant finding individuals who can prove the same thing happened to them might be difficult. I think you might have a case, I don't think you can say for certain a certain percentage of drivers is accurate or conservative though. I like how sweet and nice you were when you started and now you're ready to kick Travass' ass. :cool: Definitely worth a shot, I don't see the employee or price fixing cases working out.
 

FAC

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
I agree, I meant finding individuals who can prove the same thing happened to them might be difficult. I think you might have a case, I don't think you can say for certain a certain percentage of drivers is accurate or conservative though. I like how sweet and nice you were when you started and now you're ready to kick Travass' ass. :cool: Definitely worth a shot, I don't see the employee or price fixing cases working out.
I did a significant amount of research about Uber in writing the post. What I learned is disturbing. I agree the price fixing suit will fail. Not sure either way on the employee suit.

I do believe I have a case. Doesn't matter if your employee or contractor. If you don't pay them what you agreed to paying them that's unlawful. What needs to happen is increase awareness for the drivers to watch their pay statements vs fares and document it. And find enough people this has happened to. I just started this quest today and already know of 3 people. I'm going to start digging deep in this site and other forums to see other postings of pay discrepancy. When I uncover a wrong that needs to be righted I get passionate and make things happen. The best way to motivate me is to tell me it can't be done. If my hunch is right I'll pursue this to the end. But if I'm wrong, and most people have no issues like KevRyde that makes me happy to know I'm working for a honest company.

BTW KevRyde I feel like you told me Santa clause and the tooth fairy don't exist when you mentioned there is no Denver support. Really thought they cared since they us a special email for us. Ok not really I been to the office and they didn't seem to be very happy or friendly uber employees.

5 Star Guy love the blue smile face how do you do that?
 

FAC

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
FAC, you seem to be one of the sharper tools in this shed. What sort of support would you need to continue your quest ? Anything that can be done to help you?
Yes!!! I most definately need some help. Thank you!

Starting to put my plan together now then I'll get back to you with specifics.

But the most urgent and important thing that needs to be done ASAP is to opt out of the arbitration clause of the partnership agreement. I think it's time sensitive for existing drivers. Once you opt out post wherever you can to get others to opt out.

The link to the post below even has a form letter for anyone to use. Just enter your name in the blanks and send it off it takes less than 3 min. So spread the word. Bc those who don't opt out can't be part of any class action.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/new-...ision-opting-out-uberlawsuit-explained.49472/

One thing you can do to help is ask other uber drivers if they had issues with getting paid. If so get them to opt out and either refer them to this post or to me. Preferably this post so it stays active longer and doesn't get lost in the other postings.
 
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FAC

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
I think the Uber spies are monitoring this thread. Picked up a couple guys after the Snoop Dogg concert. I was waiting for my Lyft pax, they couldn't find their Uber driver and needed to charge their phone. Being the sweet generous gal I am I let them use my charger till their driver arrived. My Lyft pax canceled they canceled their Uber driver and ordered a new driver. Since I was right there I got the ping. Took them 28 miles across town with 1.5 surge. Took a screen shot when I dropped them off and the fare was $142 at 10:30 pm. When I logged in again at midnight the fare changed to $99. WTF? Good thing I took screen shots! The revised fare had a different pickup location.
 

Chicago88

Well-Known Member
I had a $27 fare adjusted to $11 for no apparent reason, I connected Uber support and with no explanation they apologized and said the adjustment was a mistake and I would be paid the missing $16 on my next pay out - and I was paid. But still, no explanation... I thought maybe the pax complained and uber adjusted the fare but than when I complained they adjusted my payment but I have no idea what happened. It was a simple ride on a 2.8 surge.
 

FAC

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
I had a $27 fare adjusted to $11 for no apparent reason, I connected Uber support and with no explanation they apologized and said the adjustment was a mistake and I would be paid the missing $16 on my next pay out - and I was paid. But still, no explanation... I thought maybe the pax complained and uber adjusted the fare but than when I complained they adjusted my payment but I have no idea what happened. It was a simple ride on a 2.8 surge.
I'm still a newbie driver. But in less than 30 days of driving for uber I encountered a zero out fare then tonight I had my first huge surge fare only to be adjusted for no reason, then reading other people's posts. Something isn't right here. And I don't know what it is. But I'm sure as h3ll going to find out. it might be as simple as adjustments made after a pax complains. But before any adjustments are made, drivers should be notified and told why there is an adjustment and given an opportunity to share our side of things. What's frustrating is in their new web based help system we can't even upload screenshots in support of our case. If I learned anything in my first 30days as an uber driver, always make a screenshot after a drop off. Document everything!

It kinda reminds me how insurance companies flat out deny 3% of all claims for no reason because most but not all people don't question the denial.
 

KevRyde

Well-Known Member
What's frustrating is in their new web based help system we can't even upload screenshots in support of our case
On the android app, I can press the camera icon - bottom left next to the "How can we help you further?" text field - to either take a picture or upload a stored image, screenshot, etc. that I previously saved on my phone. I'm guessing the same capability is available on the iPhone app.

upload_2016-4-21_10-30-44.png
 
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ND379

Well-Known Member
yup, usually it's the less than 5 dollar rides that when I click on them, the fare total I was paid is $0. No responses from Uber...at least not any with an actual explanation or my money. Just copy pasted responses that say they'll look into it.
 
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