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Poker Chat

Jay Dean

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #42
Listening to the audio book, it has a great point..many poker players think a suited hand is actually a good hand..for instance a 8 and 7 clubs...really all you have is a high 8. What are the odds of getting a flush or a straight amongst all the traffic. I won't believe in suited hands anymore....will fold on em.
 

UberBastid

Well-Known Member
Listening to the audio book, it has a great point..many poker players think a suited hand is actually a good hand..for instance a 8 and 7 clubs...really all you have is a high 8. What are the odds of getting a flush or a straight amongst all the traffic. I won't believe in suited hands anymore....will fold on em.
There is NO hard and fast rules in poker, except one: There is no hard and fast rules in poker.

There are times when I'll call this hand for one blind.
When is that?

Well, lets say it's a nine person table, and many have folded: I only have two opponents.
I have played these guys long enough to know their style, and that they don't change style.
They are playing very weak: and the two that are playing this hand against me are 'calling stations', that is ... they call EVERYTHING. (Geeze I love these guys.)
Their body language says they not happy with their cards either.
I have the button. And, I have a large stack.
In other words, all is well EXCEPT I got crap cards.

Sometimes I'll call the blind just to see what happens with the flop.
I call it "getting a cheap peek". If it isn't cheap, I don't do it.
It's possible to flop two eights and a seven (using your example).
If they keep checking ... I might make a 2x blind bet on 4th street as a bluff.
I have stolen many blinds that way; but if someone raises that bet of mine - I fold. Quickly.

I don't give much weight to suited connectors below 9 -- but, if the cards have been coming your way, and you feel lucky, and you don't have to assume too much risk ... what the hell - gamble.

Also, it really makes a difference as to if you're playing a cash game, or a tourney.
A tourney you play 'not to lose', not necessarily to win.
You only play a tourney like a cash game when you are ITM, much later in the game.
 

michael7227

Well-Known Member
Listening to the audio book, it has a great point..many poker players think a suited hand is actually a good hand..for instance a 8 and 7 clubs...really all you have is a high 8. What are the odds of getting a flush or a straight amongst all the traffic. I won't believe in suited hands anymore....will fold on em.
The idea is not 8 high. The idea is that you have a shrouded hand. In deepstack cash poker this hand can have huge implied odds where an opponent with a premium hand is likely to stack off when you flop two pair or a club flush/straight draw etc. You can gain a significant amount of your opponents chips when you hit this hand on the flop or gain equity as future streets play out.

You can call a modest raise with this type of hand and when folded to you in late position can be raised.

Stacks should be effective 100 big blinds or deeper, optimally.

I suck at cash though but understand this is the general idea with suited connectors. 45ss would be the lowest I'd play. Suited one gappers also starting with the 86ss.

Tournament: Much different hand and most tournaments we play (unless we're rich) will not have us deep enough to play this hand effectively.

I would shove this type of hand in a tournament with less than 10bbs though in very late position.
 
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UberBastid

Well-Known Member
Exactly the way I'd play it Michael - you explained it better.

But, I will also say that it is important to 'mix it up'. You opponents see what hole cards you have - if it comes to a showdown, and the good ones will remember how you played them. So, mix it up when you get a hunch. Luck runs in streaks: good luck, bad luck ... streaks. If you've been having a real good run - don't insult the poker gods, take a shot and take a 'cheap peek'.

I took first place in a 120 seat rebuy tourney last nite at our local indian casino. Won a little over $4k.
I was short stacked mid-way and the rebuy period was over. I had the button. Got an A-6 off. Wanted to play it. One guy at the table was one of these all-in big-shot donkeys. He called all in and everybody folded, came to me .... I figured 'screw it' and called his all in. We turned up face cards and the cards started flowing. Three hearts hit the flop felt, I held my breath. An off suit hit, and fifth street .... ten of hearts, Ace high flush. He had a pair of jacks in the hole, and never matched them up.
Odds were WAY against me on that play, but I either wanted IN the game or OUT ... and that play propelled me to the final table.
 

i_k

Well-Known Member
Listening to the audio book, it has a great point..many poker players think a suited hand is actually a good hand..for instance a 8 and 7 clubs...really all you have is a high 8. What are the odds of getting a flush or a straight amongst all the traffic. I won't believe in suited hands anymore....will fold on em.
Like @UberBastid mentioned, in certain positions many hands can be worth seeing a flop. I wouldn’t throw away suited connectors if I have good absolute/relative position. Like @michael7227 said, that hand can have huge implied odds..


Exactly the way I'd play it Michael - you explained it better.

But, I will also say that it is important to 'mix it up'. You opponents see what hole cards you have - if it comes to a showdown, and the good ones will remember how you played them. So, mix it up when you get a hunch. Luck runs in streaks: good luck, bad luck ... streaks. If you've been having a real good run - don't insult the poker gods, take a shot and take a 'cheap peek'.

I took first place in a 120 seat rebuy tourney last nite at our local indian casino. Won a little over $4k.
I was short stacked mid-way and the rebuy period was over. I had the button. Got an A-6 off. Wanted to play it. One guy at the table was one of these all-in big-shot donkeys. He called all in and everybody folded, came to me .... I figured 'screw it' and called his all in. We turned up face cards and the cards started flowing. Three hearts hit the flop felt, I held my breath. An off suit hit, and fifth street .... ten of hearts, Ace high flush. He had a pair of jacks in the hole, and never matched them up.
Odds were WAY against me on that play, but I either wanted IN the game or OUT ... and that play propelled me to the final table.
There’s always someone on the table running on a hot streak. It’s nice to be that player. Congrats on the win! It goes to show that any hand can be a winning hand. You had A-6 off, incidentally, A-6 suited is my favourite hand..
 

michael7227

Well-Known Member
The poker gods exist!

Never talk about how good your game is, take anything for granted in poker etc.

The poker gods WILL frown on you.
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Exactly the way I'd play it Michael - you explained it better.

But, I will also say that it is important to 'mix it up'. You opponents see what hole cards you have - if it comes to a showdown, and the good ones will remember how you played them. So, mix it up when you get a hunch. Luck runs in streaks: good luck, bad luck ... streaks. If you've been having a real good run - don't insult the poker gods, take a shot and take a 'cheap peek'.

I took first place in a 120 seat rebuy tourney last nite at our local indian casino. Won a little over $4k.
I was short stacked mid-way and the rebuy period was over. I had the button. Got an A-6 off. Wanted to play it. One guy at the table was one of these all-in big-shot donkeys. He called all in and everybody folded, came to me .... I figured 'screw it' and called his all in. We turned up face cards and the cards started flowing. Three hearts hit the flop felt, I held my breath. An off suit hit, and fifth street .... ten of hearts, Ace high flush. He had a pair of jacks in the hole, and never matched them up.
Odds were WAY against me on that play, but I either wanted IN the game or OUT ... and that play propelled me to the final table.
Nice Takedown!
 

Jay Dean

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #48
My own playing issue or bad habbit is:
One problem I have is I go way to fast checking if I have crappy cards...the idea of playing stupid and slow (even in online) can really make people second guess..which I am sure you all do as a tool to use in RL and not online...
.but it is fascinating how it is amazing how timing out checking, betting and everything else produces amazing results even with the worst of cards to bait and sniff others out.

Timing..like a dance, much more important than facial expressions which you can dupe as a front - timing is like playing people like a harp as they have their own perception of how long you are taking into tricking them into thinking you are thinking about your hand, when really you just have crap.

Just talking zynga talk here, as I haven't played real poker, which is why I am posting and learning from yall:smiles: but using reverse psychology for online games is all I have had to go on when playing hold'em and it works even with ping response in how long I take lol People study how long something takes as a measure of what they "think" they are seeing. I think that is a huge element of the game as it is not just a bluff but a complete lie without saying or doing a single thing, which I find absolutely crazy about this game.

Granted I know you have all thought of this before, and use this in your game, I suppose I am just showing the appreciation I have for being able to seduce others with timing in the aspect of the game, eluding them and letting them believe what they want. Game can get pretty damn psychological lol, shit is fun.
 
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itsablackmarket

Well-Known Member
I'm a pro as far as game theory goes in poker, but it takes more than that to be a winner, it takes a really stable emotional state and discipline. If you don't have all that combined with years of experience, your chips will go bye bye.
 

UberBastid

Well-Known Member
My own playing issue or bad habbit is:
One problem I have is I go way to fast checking if I have crappy cards...the idea of playing stupid and slow (even in online) can really make people second guess..which I am sure you all do as a tool to use in RL and not online...
.but it is fascinating how it is amazing how timing out checking, betting and everything else produces amazing results even with the worst of cards to bait and sniff others out.

Timing..like a dance, much more important than facial expressions which you can dupe as a front - timing is like playing people like a harp as they have their own perception of how long you are taking into tricking them into thinking you are thinking about your hand, when really you just have crap.

Just talking zynga talk here, as I haven't played real poker, which is why I am posting and learning from yall:smiles: but using reverse psychology for online games is all I have had to go on when playing hold'em and it works even with ping response in how long I take lol People study how long something takes as a measure of what they "think" they are seeing. I think that is a huge element of the game as it is not just a bluff but a complete lie without saying or doing a single thing, which I find absolutely crazy about this game.

Granted I know you have all thought of this before, and use this in your game, I suppose I am just showing the appreciation I have for being able to seduce others with timing in the aspect of the game, eluding them and letting them believe what they want. Game can get pretty damn psychological lol, shit is fun.
I'm not so sure that's a bad habit.
I do the same thing.

I got pocket aces once, was just before the button.
I simply called the bb. Everyone else did.
After the flop opponents all checked, and checked and checked.
I did the same and sipped on my beer ... bored.
Fourth street was no help; but opponents didn't wanna play.
Fifth street fell ... it was another ace ... I had a set.

I hoped nobody could see the vein pulsing in my forehead, but the pot wasn't all that big ... yet.
I took a sip of beer ... sighed.
Guy right across the table looked at me and smiled - and made a big 3x bb bet.

Guy after him called.
I sighed and shrugged ... and raised.
Next guy folded.
Guy across from me re-raised.
Now it's a phat pot.

Next guy folded ... now, just me and bad guy.
And, guess what I did ... yep. All in.

He called quickly and showed ... a pair of queens, one in the hole, one on the flop.

If I'd of gotten aggressive too early, he'd of folded (and everyone else) and it would have been 25% of the pot I actually pulled in.
It doesn't always work out ... and the pro's say that 'slow playing' is not good statistically.
But, statistics isn't everything.

Also, once you do something like that, everybody at the table remembers; and if you DO bluff they tend to believe you and fold hands that would otherwise beat you. I like stealing blinds.
 

i_k

Well-Known Member
Timing..like a dance, much more important than facial expressions which you can dupe as a front - timing is like playing people like a harp as they have their own perception of how long you are taking into tricking them into thinking you are thinking about your hand, when really you just have crap.
Hey, you’re starting to get the hang of it. Timing is important in both online and real life. That extra 5 seconds you take is another 5 seconds your opponent is thinking—most likely overthinking. It’s a good trick to throw them off. If you’re going to use this trick frequently, then change up your timing and keep them guessing..


If I'd of gotten aggressive too early, he'd of folded (and everyone else) and it would have been 25% of the pot I actually pulled in.
It doesn't always work out ... and the pro's say that 'slow playing' is not good statistically.
But, statistics isn't everything.
Pros sometimes intentionally make “mistakes” for a few different reasons. Slow playing pocket aces sounds like a bad move but you played it like a pro, making a “mistake” to gain the most out of that hand. I wouldn’t want to play against you, that’s for sure..
 

Jay Dean

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #52
Do any of you players raise to buy information (about response from others cards by other players reactions?), and even invest in knowing what those reactions are for later hands,
or raise because you feel great about your cards? Or both at different times lol?
 
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UberBastid

Well-Known Member
Sure.
Like I said - no rules.

The only thing that I think when considering that kind of thing is "Is the information I gain, worth the money I'm spending." It's a benefit vs. cost analysis.
Best to do that (IMO) early in the tourney when the blinds are low, but that is also while the donkeys are still in the game so the info you gain may not be helpful in the longer run.
Or, do that at the end of the game at final table when aggression and reckless abandon is the right way to play.

Have you done any research on different playing types?
Have you determined what type you are - what type you want to be?
 

i_k

Well-Known Member
Do any of you players raise to buy information (about response from others cards by other players reactions?), and even invest in knowing what those reactions are for later hands,
or raise because you feel great about your cards? Or both at different times lol?
You can gather info a few ways: if a tight and straightforward player raises pre-flop and you have a good hand, say AQ off, you can re-raise to see if your opponent who initially raised has just a good hand or a really great hand. If you double their raise a straightforward player will always throw in a third re-raise only with pocket aces or kings, and just call (or fold) with any other hand. So if they do re-raise you, great, you’ve got your info and you can fold. You lose a min raise but you could save your entire stack. (Your initial re-raise will also weed out the other players with good but not great hands and leave you heads up if the first raiser calls.)

Another way to get info is if you have pocket pair and previous betting has led you believe your opponent also has pocket pair, but you’re not sure whose is higher. If the flop comes out with low cards, then you can make a larger-than-normal sized bet. A straightforward player will call or raise you with really high pocket pair and fold a smaller pair. Essentially, in this case you want to bet a large amount to get info.

*Use these techniques only against straightforward players. Skilled players will see what you’re doing and make you pay for it..
 

Jay Dean

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #55
Do any of y’all play Zynga, I know it is a scam as they deal you crap cards to get you to buy chips..but do any of you play it? The good thing about zynga is it’s portsble and can be fun, but it’s a complete scam and bloated with pop ups

Thinking about trading up iPhone Se for galaxy S9 to play some portable poker, do you play poker stars portable?
 
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i_k

Well-Known Member
Do any of y’all play Zynga, I know it is a scam as they deal you crap cards to get you to buy chips..but do any of you play it? The good thing about zynga is it’s portsble and can be fun, but it’s a complete scam and bloated with pop ups

Thinking about trading up iPhone Se for galaxy S9 to play some portable poker, do you play poker stars portable?
I’ve never tried Zynga. I started playing online poker on Ladbrokes approx 20 years ago. Not for real money though, it was more for practice when I couldn’t find a live game. But that was back when people actually played with fake money like it was real money so it was a good learning tool. I never really got into online poker for real money—it’s a different game. Personally, I enjoy seeing my opponents face to face, I find it more fun that way..
 

UberBastid

Well-Known Member
I’ve never tried Zynga. I started playing online poker on Ladbrokes approx 20 years ago. Not for real money though, it was more for practice when I couldn’t find a live game. But that was back when people actually played with fake money like it was real money so it was a good learning tool. I never really got into online poker for real money—it’s a different game. Personally, I enjoy seeing my opponents face to face, I find it more fun that way..
Agree ... with all of what you posted.

But, if you want to find a site that is play money, where players play like it is their real money, some to replaypoker dot com.
Now, in the lower 'priced' games you will find a lot of donkey play (bingo), but MOST of the time, especially after the first break you will feel like you playing with money.

I play on a for-money site too, but replay is great for practice.

You can buy chips if you like, but you can build up your own bankroll too, which is what I did.
I have over $2 mil in chips, and rated mid 7000's over all; and been there for over two years.

Keep an eye peeled for me.
On that site I am known as HashBucket.
Say hi, but don't pay any attention to what the other players say about me.
 

i_k

Well-Known Member
Agree ... with all of what you posted.

But, if you want to find a site that is play money, where players play like it is their real money, some to replaypoker dot com.
Now, in the lower 'priced' games you will find a lot of donkey play (bingo), but MOST of the time, especially after the first break you will feel like you playing with money.

I play on a for-money site too, but replay is great for practice.

You can buy chips if you like, but you can build up your own bankroll too, which is what I did.
I have over $2 mil in chips, and rated mid 7000's over all; and been there for over two years.

Keep an eye peeled for me.
On that site I am known as HashBucket.
Say hi, but don't pay any attention to what the other players say about me.
Thanks! I’ll check out that site. I haven’t played in so long, I need to shake off the rust before I get back into live games. I’ll sign up tomorrow and will keep an eye out for you..
 

UberBastid

Well-Known Member
Thanks! I’ll check out that site. I haven’t played in so long, I need to shake off the rust before I get back into live games. I’ll sign up tomorrow and will keep an eye out for you..
I like to play tourney ... usually about 3pm to 9pm PST.
I try to get in the Rebuy at 7:15 and 9:15 and a few in between.
All times pacific standard.

See you at the tables.
Bring your check book - and pink slip.
 
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Jay Dean

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #60
Forgot that a flush beats a straight, I figured it would be a split win but nope, I learn from errors lol ...I was lured in on this one and got a tad over confident. I’m the shark avatar
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