Not knowing destinations in advance is costing drivers BILLIONS OF DOLLARS per year in lost revenue

Karen Stein

Well-Known Member
Still only community-organizer rhetoric, with a veiled insult.

"Let's force .... " is hardly the voice of reason, persuation, or freedom. Instead, it's the voice if division and tyranny.

Not for this girl.
 

Nats121

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #42
Uber and Lyft tied this in at the hip with discrimination from the beginning. There is zero chance of this changing without massive public push back.
Correct.

Both companies cynically and dishonestly will try to hide behind racial discrimination as the reason they have to hide destinations.

The fact is Uber redlines minority areas.

Here in DC, when Boosts were common, the minority wards of DC had few rush hour Boosts, which resulted in perpetual surges in those wards. Black pax were thus forced to pay higher prices for their rides as a result.

In 2016, Uber tried to get away with paying Detroit drivers an incredibly low 24 cents per mile. It backfired when surges went thru the roof.

Don't think for a second that Uber doesn't use race as a criteria for matching pax and drivers.
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One word.... well well two words

Cherry picking
Uber's a fanatical cherry picker.

Their spy agency attempts to learn everything they can about their pax (probably including the pax' sex and bathroom habits) and they use that info to help calculate how much they'll charge for the ride.
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If you can cherry pick only the rides you want to do how do you think that would serve riders especially the ones who want to go shorter distances.
The pax wouldn't get served unless the pay was high enough to entice drivers to accept the trip.
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All this non-sense would go away if they just made min fare rides profitable for drivers. Even at $5 for a min fare it would be more reasonable. $7 would be ideal. At $7 per ride it's not difficult, unless driver saturation or slow, to make $20+/hr. That is only 3 rides an hour Yea yea, you got expenses, but if you are pounding min fares you aren't putting many miles on and 3 min fare is slow you should be able to do 4+/hr. Charging $10 for a ride is still reasonable for the PAX. If it's to much for a PAX, they should take other forms of transportation that are within their budget.

Uber/Lyft make very high margin on these rides. So instead they resort to crap practices to entice drivers to take these. My market it's not a huge deal, as generally only have a couple min fares before a longer one comes through.
I've done more than my share of shit rides, and I can tell you $5 minimum fare wouldn't be nearly enough to get me to accept any of them.
 
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Nats121

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #43
I can imagine a ride that might be a money looser, but I don’t think I’ve ever had one. I get it that a 10 min ride after a 2 hour wait might not be the best use of my time, but it dosent lose me money. In fact the short rides pay more per mile than the long rides.

It’s the dead miles that kill you or better said it’s the ratio; dead miles to paid miles I would love to be able to reject any ride where the dead miles exceed paid miles but I don’t have the information to do that without Uber pro

So I worked to improve my acceptance rate to 85% and qualify for Uber pro. Now I have the information I need to make a decision.

Bottom line is I’m a fan of Uber pro and believe I make more money taking rides then rejecting them
Most crappy rides aren't actual money losers, their payouts are simply not worth the driver's time and effort.
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Although I believe that your reasoning is a bit shaky, Lyft shows the distance and direction of the trip.
Lyft doesn't show any info until AFTER you accept the trip AND you've arrived at the pickup.

So in order to find our where the pax is going, you have to waste time and gas driving to the pax.

And because Lyft takes a very hard stance against cancelling rides, using the destination info to avoid garbage rides puts you at risk of being fired.
 
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oldfart

Well-Known Member
You don't think you ever had a money losing ride? LMFAO. After reading your post twice there seems to be only two educated conclusions I can come to. The first is that you are writing this as an Uber troll and get paid to write such propaganda that is misleading for the purpose of attempting to make Uber driving look better than it is. The second would be that you just don't understand numbers. Have you calculated your "earnings" minus employee taxes? employer taxes? depreciation? insurance? maintenance? cell phone use? time? I cannot believe you are an actual driver when you say you don't think you ever had a money losing ride......most rides are subsidized by the drivers via their pay. You ARE losing money every time you start driving. As for the 85% AR, this tells me you are accepting more than the average share of non-profitable rides as that is the only way to get to that percent and maintain it. Uber loves drivers that think like you hence the reason I believe you are likely being paid by Uber to write such garbage.
yes Ive run all the numbers for the expenses you catalog in your post and my costs are

annual miles driven 70000

employee taxes... o
employer taxes... 0
depreciation.... 8 cents/mile
insurance ....7 cents per mile
maintenance and repairs 5 cents per mile
cell phone use 1 cent per mile
gas 12 cents per mile

total 33 cents per mile

I typically dont look at this thing a ride at a time...but here goes
in my market we are paid a long pick up fee for a pick up more than 10 min... so worst case is a 10 minute pick up (everything after that is paid) so lets assume a 10 min pickup...At 30 miles per hour thats 5 miles so my cost to get to the passenger is $1.65 A short ride here pays a minimum fare of $2.38 Assume a 2 mile ride.. now I have 7 miles or $2.31 invested That makes for a 7 cent profit

as i see it thats worst case.. You will note, I dont consider my time. As I suggested in my post, there are much better things i can do with my time, but most of them cost me money..I wasnt responding to time lost, i was responding to folks here (like you) that say we lose money on some rides we dont. and I often capitalize on those short rides,,almost every one gets my card promoting my airport ride business, Often times a $2 ride from the Ritz Carlton to dinner at a nearby restaurant turns into a $45 ride to the airport a few days later


Im a cash flow kinda guy.. Since depreciation is not an out of pocket expense, I dont consider it
I do set money aside for a new car, but the money in my reserve account is not an expense; its my money

the car is an investment in my business,, I started this thing with a car that I paid $25000 for...As time goes on the car loses value and the savings account gains value.. I start with a $25000 car and no savings, and after time I have .a $0 car and savings of $25000 The business neither loses money nor makes money and I take money out every month
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Most crappy rides aren't actual money losers, their payouts are simply not worth the driver's time and effort.
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Lyft doesn't show any info until AFTER you accept the trip AND you've arrived at the pickup.

So in order to find our where the pax is going, you have to waste time and gas driving to the pax.

And because Lyft takes a very hard stance against cancelling rides, using the destination info to avoid garbage rides puts you at risk of being fired.
"Most crappy rides aren't actual money losers, their payouts are simply not worth the driver's time and effort." thats my point exactly

and regarding Lyft, I havent deleted the app yet, but I dont do much with it since the introduction of Uber Pro
 

Bobbyk5487

Well-Known Member
Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
every year.

By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.

Knowing destinations in advance and NOT being penalized in any way whatsoever would result in much HIGHER driver pay, which is why both companies have always been strongly opposed to it.

Drivers knowing destinations in advance would a GAME CHANGER.
Im a diamind driver so I get the direction and time distance before I accept a trip...i don't see how not knowing the destination cost drivers anything
 

libingbing

Well-Known Member
But what about those people who only want to go one block because they are lazy? And what about the shoppers at your local grocery shops who live very close to the store but still need help with groceries? Would you still pick em up if you knew how short the ride was? or are you that selfish driver who only cares about his fat payout.... you sir, are no different than uber! Shame on you!
Must cancel all rides at grocery stores !!!
 

Trafficat

Well-Known Member
Im a diamind driver so I get the direction and time distance before I accept a trip...i don't see how not knowing the destination cost drivers anything
Uber hiding the details is very aggravating.

I wish I could see what rides are on the way TO strip clubs and accept them. I wish I could see what rides are on the way FROM strip clubs and gated communities and reject them. I wish I could see what rides are on the way THROUGH school zones with 10 stoplights and reject them. I wish I could see which rides are heading TO my neighborhood where my house is to accept them.

When you take every ride, you get every puker, every person who will take you on a 45 minute couple mile journey infested with stoplights for $12 fare, every person who will require a 8 minute pickup for a $2.47 fare. I like the "arrive by" destination mode where it doesn't tell you that your ride has 2 stops and your passenger wants to wait 15 minutes at the first stop. How about, no, I need to arrive by 9 AM so I can't do a 2 stop ride. When you see where each ride is going, you will be on time to where you want to go, you will avoid money losing tips, and you can choose trips that put you in the places you want to be.
 

lyft_rat

Well-Known Member
Try using common sense and the laws of supply and demand and you'll come up with the correct answer.

All but the most zombie-like ants would become much more choosy about the rides they accept if they know the destination in advance.

Thus, Uber would be forced to raise driver pay to levels high enough to get undesirable rides accepted.
Yes pay for short rides would go up but for the same reason of supply and demand, pay for the longer rides would go down. The net result could easily be lower total pay. I would much rather cherry pick for the good rides under the present system: be very picky about pickup location and time of day, and feed on repeat customers, especially those that tip. If you happen to accept a dog (so to speak), cancel.
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depreciation.... 8 cents/mile
maintenance and repairs 5 cents per mile
These two number are incompatible. I smell some BS here.
 
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Nats121

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #50
Yes pay for short rides would go up but for the same reason of supply and demand, pay for the longer rides would go down. The net result could easily be lower total pay. I would much rather cherry pick for the good rides under the present system: be very picky about pickup location and time of day, and feed on repeat customers, especially those that tip. If you happen to accept a dog (so to speak), cancel.
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The pay for ALL rides would go UP.
 

Bobbyk5487

Well-Known Member
Uber hiding the details is very aggravating.

I wish I could see what rides are on the way TO strip clubs and accept them. I wish I could see what rides are on the way FROM strip clubs and gated communities and reject them. I wish I could see what rides are on the way THROUGH school zones with 10 stoplights and reject them. I wish I could see which rides are heading TO my neighborhood where my house is to accept them.

When you take every ride, you get every puker, every person who will take you on a 45 minute couple mile journey infested with stoplights for $12 fare, every person who will require a 8 minute pickup for a $2.47 fare. I like the "arrive by" destination mode where it doesn't tell you that your ride has 2 stops and your passenger wants to wait 15 minutes at the first stop. How about, no, I need to arrive by 9 AM so I can't do a 2 stop ride. When you see where each ride is going, you will be on time to where you want to go, you will avoid money losing tips, and you can choose trips that put you in the places you want to be.
I wish I could be a bikini inspector on south beach....but life ain't fair....we all got our load to carry
 

waldowainthrop

Well-Known Member
The pay for ALL rides would go UP.
And the rideshare companies fear the passenger rates would have to go up too, harming demand, helping the other app, pissing off investors. If I were them I would be wary of giving drivers more. Oversupply is a good problem for them to have even if it’s terrible for us.
 

Transportador

Well-Known Member
not at 1pt rides and not maybe 3 hours a day 4x a day. and really, what for? Really nothing that makes my day. Just a wee bit more info on the ping; big whuppin deal.
It helps me cherry pick. The difference between a 10 minutes airport ride versus 45 minutes ride is enough reason for me.

Of course I don't drive just to keep my UberPro level. I'm just saying it ain't hard to get there and maintain it for me. If they let me see trip duration I ain't going to complain, like this post is saying.
 

SHalester

Well-Known Member
It helps me cherry pick.
i don't. I do go offline when I don't want a 2nd poo pax or when I do an airport drop off.
If more in calif get the more info ping I'm all for it. But won't use the info to decline. I get a ping, I accept. Ant ant I'm am. Just want more info, longer decision time etc.
 

2smart2drive

Active Member
But what about those people who only want to go one block because they are lazy? And what about the shoppers at your local grocery shops who live very close to the store but still need help with groceries? Would you still pick em up if you knew how short the ride was? or are you that selfish driver who only cares about his fat payout.... you sir, are no different than uber! Shame on you!
What “Fat Payouts”? L/Uber drivers aren’t airline pilots: besides occasional luck, overwhelming majority of ride-share trips are LEAN as f*ck.
 

jazzapt

Well-Known Member
It shouldn't be that difficult to get Platinum. I drive part time (7-9 am & 5-7 pm) and I got it fairly easy.
I am a part timer at Diamond. Very doable.
Doable for some, impossible for others. This is because what one driver considers PT can be very different from another. While some people have the freedom to work the rush hours, others (such as myself) do not.

I do only early morning airport runs as that is the only time I have free to drive if I want to spend time with my family. The most amout of rides I've done in one month is just under 100. I will never get out of Blue with those numbers and there is nothing that Pro offers that make me want to sacrifice family time in order to get.

Also, some markets are busier than others. While it may be feasible for some PTers in one market, it may not be possible on others. I have a PTer friend who was able to reach it no problem in Boston. But he moved to Sarasota FL and has been stuck in Blue since.
 

LADryver

Well-Known Member
This all goes to show how flawed the whole “we aren’t a transportation company, we just connect those who have rides with those who need it” argument is.

If that were true, we would get to decide who they connect us with based on the kind of rides we want to give.

But not only do we not get to see the destination, they have made it increasingly more difficult to pinpoint the pickup location as well (remember when we used to get the pickup address on the ping)? I swear on Uber, the ping times out faster if I try to zoom in too close to where the pickup location is.

And we wouldn’t be forced to take Pool pings either.
That's our payment processor for you.
 

Tarvus

Well-Known Member
You don't think you ever had a money losing ride? LMFAO. After reading your post twice there seems to be only two educated conclusions I can come to. The first is that you are writing this as an Uber troll and get paid to write such propaganda that is misleading for the purpose of attempting to make Uber driving look better than it is. The second would be that you just don't understand numbers. Have you calculated your "earnings" minus employee taxes? employer taxes? depreciation? insurance? maintenance? cell phone use? time? I cannot believe you are an actual driver when you say you don't think you ever had a money losing ride......most rides are subsidized by the drivers via their pay. You ARE losing money every time you start driving. As for the 85% AR, this tells me you are accepting more than the average share of non-profitable rides as that is the only way to get to that percent and maintain it. Uber loves drivers that think like you hence the reason I believe you are likely being paid by Uber to write such garbage.
Both of your conclusions are wrong. Old Fart drives in my market. We have chatted and corresponded several times. He has been both my passenger and my driver on occasion. He is one of the more successful drivers I know in this market. He knows his costs to the penny. He tracks a variety of metrics in the effort to improve his bottom line. He knows his market. He has a strategy and method that works for him in this market.

YOU sir, don't know what the hell you are talking about. I would venture to guess you could learn a thing or two by listening to him and trying to learn rather than name calling, arguing, and trying to bolster your own negative self image by acting as though you are somehow superior in knowledge.
 
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theMezz

Well-Known Member
Guys, have you not heard about UberPro? Get to Platinum and Diamond level and you get to see trip duration ahead of time. Nothing like that on Lyft though. Uber wants you to drive just for them and accept most pings to stay at these levels. But you do get to ignore a few lousy rides, especially when you are in areas known for longer rides.
what good is it? Get to a level to see trip details and subsequently decline some and then your back to below the level to see rides. It's all psy-ops on us to keep us driving. It IS
 
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