• UberPeople.NET - Independent community of rideshare drivers. It's FREE to be a person and enjoy all the benefits of membership. JOIN US! CLICK HERE

NH TRYING TO PASS LEGISLATION TO RECLASSIFY DRIVERS

Mtbsrfun

Active Member
Morning all,
Few weeks ago I was laid off so I stopped by the unemployment office and got signed up; putting Uber as my part time employment to get bills paid. Yesterday I received a call from the woman in charge of everything Uber related in the state of NH wanting to ask me a few questions.

She informed me that the state of NH does not view drivers as IC but rather employees, so they treat us as such. We had a very lengthy conversation and I brought up many talking points we bring up here, to my surprise she already knew everything! She let me know that the state currently is seeking legislation to reclassify drivers; telling me that if Uber wants to call us IC that they need to change how they do business. We talked for a good half an hour and she asked me lots and lots of questions about all aspects of being a driver.

It was a breath of fresh air, hearing that somebody at the state level actually cares about us. She brought up the fee Uber takes from us, the classification, benefits, the fact Uber calls itself a technology company when its not and she told me to look forward to change coming soon.

She assured me that the state and all it’s power is on the drivers side and that they will make things right; all the need is a little time.

I didn’t post this in the NH forum because it’s dead so I figured that you guys would like to hear it. Slowly but surely we will win this fight; keep your heads up and keep striking and making your media presence known because people in high places ARE LISTENING.
 
Last edited:

BigRedDriver

Well-Known Member
Morning all,
Few weeks ago I was laid off so I stopped by the unemployment office and got signed up; putting Uber as my part time employment to get bills paid. Yesterday I received a call from the woman in charge of everything Uber related in the state of NH wanting to ask me a few questions.

She informed me that the state of NH does not view drivers as IC but rather employees, so they treat us as such. We had a very lengthy conversation and I brought up many talking points we bring up here, to my surprise she already knew everything! She let me know that the state currently is seeking legislation to reclassify drivers; telling me that if Uber wants to call us IC that they need to change how they do business. We talked for a good half an hour and she asked me lots and lots of questions about all aspects of being a driver.

It was a breath of fresh air, hearing that somebody at the state level actually cares about us. She brought up the fee Uber takes from us, the classification, benefits, the fact Uber calls itself a technology company when its not and she told me to look forward to change coming soon.

She assured me that the state and all it’s power is on the drivers side and that they will make things right; all the need is a little time.

I didn’t post this in the NH forum because it’s dead so I figured that you guys would like to hear it. Slowly but surely we will win this fight; keep your heads up and keep striking and making your media presence known because people in high places ARE LISTENING.
This type of thing will spread like wildfire.

Thanks for posting
 

NotanEmployee

Well-Known Member
I can see it now, uniforms, required shift work, quotas, fired for refusing a pax no matter how unsafe it feels. No more deductions for mileage and ware and tare on YOUR vehicle. Taxes taken out of gross pay and youll make less than you are now. Uber will cease to exist there as drivers will learn the hard way what it would mean to drive YOUR vehicle as an employee.
 

Stevie The magic Unicorn

Well-Known Member
I can see it now, uniforms, required shift work, quotas, fired for refusing a pax no matter how unsafe it feels. No more deductions for mileage and ware and tare on YOUR vehicle. Taxes taken out of gross pay and youll make less than you are now. Uber will cease to exist there as drivers will learn the hard way what it would mean to drive YOUR vehicle as an employee.
Actually....

Employees MUST make minimum wage free and clear of all deductions (however tips can count towards the deductions)

This means for all hours worked (or when you don’t have enough time to go home between tasks) they have to pay...

1 $10.10 Per hour (up to 40 hours)
2 $15.15 per hour over 40 hours.
3. Deductible expenses lower your wage.( or provide a FREE car to use for business)
4. Tips count towards min wage

And they can legally pay you less as long as your TIPs put you over min wage. (Based on what I can see for Hawaii.

Now... this might look like less than you are currently making, however the deductions can EASILY exceed my entire base pay.


Including deductions I would need to clear the following for Orlando.

$22.83 + tolls reimbursement. (Including tips) {that Uber can prove happened}

This is just to hit MINIMUM WAGE of $8.46 an hour.

That’s right... it takes $22.83 to make $8.46 free and clear or deductions. Thats only 269% of the minimum wage to make the minimum wage....


If you drive 200 miles a day that would only be an extra $115 in untaxable mileage reimbursement you would be entitled to as an employee.

However the downside is that i would actually have to pay taxes on $8.46 an hour if Uber was paying me $22.83 an hour.

And after 40 hours they would have to only pay $27.06 per hour. (But only paying tax on 12.69)
 

NotanEmployee

Well-Known Member
Employees MUST make minimum wage free and clear of all deductions
Please tell me about these elusive deductions you speak of. Employees can no longer take unreimbursed employee deductions like mileage. You will pay social security, medicare tax and state and federal taxes on the gross income shown on your w2. It is possible an employer could choose to reimburse you for mileage and ware and tare (but they are not required to) which would not be taxed but you are still paying more in taxes and pocketing less.

Its simple math. Take 2 different scenarios, one you get gross income with social security and medicare taken out. You then pay state and federal taxes on the gross income. = more taxes paid and less cash in your pocket.

Scenario 2 you get gross income, you then deduct all business expenses, mileage ware and tare to get a net amount which is about 1/3 of the gross, you now pay your self employment taxes (medicare and social security) and federal and state taxes on that amount. Less taxes paid means more money in your pocket.

I could care less about hourly wage. Whats important to me is that i have more money in my pocket to spend and pay less to the feds
 
Last edited:

Wolfgang Faust

Well-Known Member
Please tell me about these elusive deductions you speak of. Employees can no longer take unreimbursed employee deductions like mileage. You will pay social security, medicare tax and state and federal taxes on the gross income shown on your w2. It is possible an employer could choose to reimburse you for mileage and ware and tare (but they are not required to) which would not be taxed but you are still paying more in taxes and pocketing less.

Its simple math. Take 2 different scenarios, one you get gross income with social security and medicare taken out. You then pay state and federal taxes on the gross income. = more taxes paid and less cash in your pocket.

Scenario 2 you get gross income, you then deduct all business expenses, mileage ware and tare to get a net amount which is about 1/3 of the gross, you now pay your self employment taxes (medicare and social security) and federal and state taxes on that amount. Less taxes paid means more money in your pocket.

I could care less about hourly wage. Whats important to me is that i have more money in my pocket to spend and pay less to the feds
Exactly.
Put fares back where they were two years ago.
What the hell is this deflation s h * t?
 

BigRedDriver

Well-Known Member
I can see it now, uniforms, required shift work, quotas, fired for refusing a pax no matter how unsafe it feels. No more deductions for mileage and ware and tare on YOUR vehicle. Taxes taken out of gross pay and youll make less than you are now. Uber will cease to exist there as drivers will learn the hard way what it would mean to drive YOUR vehicle as an employee.
Or they force these companies to show the “contractor” the projected income from the job before the contractor agrees to each job.

That’s all that’s needed.
 

Stevie The magic Unicorn

Well-Known Member
Please tell me about these elusive deductions you speak of. Employees can no longer take unreimbursed employee deductions like mileage. You will pay social security, medicare tax and state and federal taxes on the gross income shown on your w2. It is possible an employer could choose to reimburse you for mileage and ware and tare (but they are not required to) which would not be taxed but you are still paying more in taxes and pocketing less.

Its simple math. Take 2 different scenarios, one you get gross income with social security and medicare taken out. You then pay state and federal taxes on the gross income. = more taxes paid and less cash in your pocket.

Scenario 2 you get gross income, you then deduct all business expenses, mileage ware and tare to get a net amount which is about 1/3 of the gross, you now pay your self employment taxes (medicare and social security) and federal and state taxes on that amount. Less taxes paid means more money in your pocket.

I could care less about hourly wage. Whats important to me is that i have more money in my pocket to spend and pay less to the feds


Our business would be adversely affected if Drivers were classified as employees instead of independent contractors,” it says. If changes to foreign, state, and local laws required the company to reclassify its 3.9 million drivers as employees, it would “fundamentally change” its business model, according to the document.


Uber says it would cost them so much money they would have to change their entire business model. IE something so drastic that it' not even the same model of paying drivers to drive people around?

Yeah.. even uber says that it would cost them money.



§ 531.35 “Free and clear” payment; “kickbacks.”

Whether in cash or in facilities, wages” cannot be considered to have been paid by the employer and received by the employee unless they are paid finally and unconditionally or “free and clear.” The wage requirements of the Act will not be met where the employee “kicks-back” directly or indirectly to the employer or to another person for the employer's benefit the whole or part of the wage delivered to the employee. This is true whether the “kick-back” is made in cash or in other than cash. For example, if it is a requirement of the employer that the employee must provide tools of the trade which will be used in or are specifically required for the performance of the employer's particular work, there would be a violation of the Act in any workweek when the cost of such tools purchased by the employee cuts into the minimum or overtime wages required to be paid him under the Act. See also in this connection, § 531.32(c).




There's case law from delivery employees making less than minimum wage while using their own vehicle, suing and winning.

The difference is that employees are entitled to this, and... there's case law, and i'm not going back decades either, just to 2009-2015, after uber launched.





This isn't ancient history, and this is entirely within the scope of my argument.






This story has been updated.

Papa John’s International says it has agreed to pay $12.3 million to settle a class-action lawsuit accusing the company of underpaying mileage reimbursements to its pizza delivery drivers in six states.

The suit, filed in federal court in St. Louis in 2009, represents about 19,000 drivers in Missouri, Florida, Illinois, North Carolina, Arizona and Maryland. The court record notes that a settlement was agreed upon earlier this month.

Papa John’s disclosed in its second-quarter earnings announcement Tuesday that a preliminary out-of-court agreement had been reached.

Other than stating the settlement amount, the Louisville-based company did not say if it changed its driver compensation practices as part of the settlement. As it has all along, the pizza chain denied any wrongdoing.

But attorneys for former pizza driver William Perrin of St. Louis detailed a corrupt scheme in which drivers “kicked back” money to the company by receiving lower reimbursements for the use of their vehicles to deliver pizzas.

According to the complaint, drivers were typically paid between $1 and $1.50 per delivery, regardless of distance, rather than the 45 to 55 cents per mile rate recommended by AAA and the IRS. That scheme cost the drivers $1.50 to $5.33 per hour, giving them a net hourly pay ranging from $1.48 to $5.75, according to the lawsuit.

pizza

(Read the lawsuit)

“The net effect of (Papa John’s) flawed reimbursement policy, instituted and approved by company managers, is that they willfully fail to pay the federal minimum wage to their delivery drivers,” the suit states. “Defendants thereby enjoy ill-gained profits at the expense of their employees.”

Phone calls to a Papa John’s spokeswoman and to the plaintiff’s attorneys were not returned Thursday.

The $12.3 million settlement took a large bite out of Papa John’s second-quarter earnings. After deducting for the expected settlement payment, its quarterly profit fell 36 percent to $10.8 million. The proposed settlement is subject to court approval.

Reporter James McNair can be reached at [email protected] or (502) 814-6543.

Correction: An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated that the federal court record made no mention of a settlement. A docket entry a day earlier noted that the parties reached a settlement.
 
Last edited:

Mista T

Well-Known Member
Author
The state of OR has officially classified rs drivers as employees in 2015.

Too bad legal stuff moves so fricking slow.
 

NotanEmployee

Well-Known Member


Our business would be adversely affected if Drivers were classified as employees instead of independent contractors,” it says. If changes to foreign, state, and local laws required the company to reclassify its 3.9 million drivers as employees, it would “fundamentally change” its business model, according to the document.


Uber says it would cost them so much money they would have to change their entire business model. IE something so drastic that it' not even the same model of paying drivers to drive people around?

Yeah.. even uber says that it would cost them money.



§ 531.35 “Free and clear” payment; “kickbacks.”

Whether in cash or in facilities, wages” cannot be considered to have been paid by the employer and received by the employee unless they are paid finally and unconditionally or “free and clear.” The wage requirements of the Act will not be met where the employee “kicks-back” directly or indirectly to the employer or to another person for the employer's benefit the whole or part of the wage delivered to the employee. This is true whether the “kick-back” is made in cash or in other than cash. For example, if it is a requirement of the employer that the employee must provide tools of the trade which will be used in or are specifically required for the performance of the employer's particular work, there would be a violation of the Act in any workweek when the cost of such tools purchased by the employee cuts into the minimum or overtime wages required to be paid him under the Act. See also in this connection, § 531.32(c).




There's case law from delivery employees making less than minimum wage while using their own vehicle, suing and winning.

The difference is that employees are entitled to this, and... there's case law, and i'm not going back decades either, just to 2009-2015, after uber launched.





This isn't ancient history, and this is entirely within the scope of my argument.






This story has been updated.

Papa John’s International says it has agreed to pay $12.3 million to settle a class-action lawsuit accusing the company of underpaying mileage reimbursements to its pizza delivery drivers in six states.

The suit, filed in federal court in St. Louis in 2009, represents about 19,000 drivers in Missouri, Florida, Illinois, North Carolina, Arizona and Maryland. The court record notes that a settlement was agreed upon earlier this month.

Papa John’s disclosed in its second-quarter earnings announcement Tuesday that a preliminary out-of-court agreement had been reached.

Other than stating the settlement amount, the Louisville-based company did not say if it changed its driver compensation practices as part of the settlement. As it has all along, the pizza chain denied any wrongdoing.

But attorneys for former pizza driver William Perrin of St. Louis detailed a corrupt scheme in which drivers “kicked back” money to the company by receiving lower reimbursements for the use of their vehicles to deliver pizzas.

According to the complaint, drivers were typically paid between $1 and $1.50 per delivery, regardless of distance, rather than the 45 to 55 cents per mile rate recommended by AAA and the IRS. That scheme cost the drivers $1.50 to $5.33 per hour, giving them a net hourly pay ranging from $1.48 to $5.75, according to the lawsuit.

pizza

(Read the lawsuit)

“The net effect of (Papa John’s) flawed reimbursement policy, instituted and approved by company managers, is that they willfully fail to pay the federal minimum wage to their delivery drivers,” the suit states. “Defendants thereby enjoy ill-gained profits at the expense of their employees.”

Phone calls to a Papa John’s spokeswoman and to the plaintiff’s attorneys were not returned Thursday.

The $12.3 million settlement took a large bite out of Papa John’s second-quarter earnings. After deducting for the expected settlement payment, its quarterly profit fell 36 percent to $10.8 million. The proposed settlement is subject to court approval.

Reporter James McNair can be reached at [email protected] or (502) 814-6543.

Correction: An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated that the federal court record made no mention of a settlement. A docket entry a day earlier noted that the parties reached a settlement.
Okay, based on this then I'd say employers are required to pay for employee expenses, but my argument still stands, ill have more money in my pocket if i can DEDUCT my expenses BEFORE paying taxes. This helps me pay less and keeps me in a lower tax bracket.

Im definitely not arguing that us as employees would be not detrimental to uber. The cost of employees is staggering and shocking. The workers compensation, employment taxes, unemployment taxes, health care, etc. Wages are the least of their worries. It would not be sustainable.

Im just talking about us as drivers. Those who work a job for an hourly wage are paying the most in taxes. Those smart enough to be self employed have a leg up. Those who can figure out a way to legally make money and pay less taxes are the ones that find a way to aquire wealth over their lifetime, it's working smarter not harder. Doing uber is definitely working smarter not harder. I earn twice as much with 1/2 as much time and effort. For me its a no brainer, but then im not working in a market where < $0.80 a mile is king. Doing that is just a bad business decision.
 
Last edited:

Stevie The magic Unicorn

Well-Known Member
Okay, based on this then I'd say employers are required to pay for employee expenses, but my argument still stands, ill have more money in my pocket if i can DEDUCT my expenses BEFORE paying taxes. This helps me pay less and keeps me in a lower tax bracket.
Mileage reimbursement isn't taxable.

It doesn't HAVE to land on your w2, and your employer doesn't have to pay their half of it either.

Quite simply... (i've had a delivery job before way back when)

The mileage reimbursement was not taxable, and it didn't go onto the w2, federal taxes didn't come out of it.

I was paying taxes only on my hourly wage and tips the mileage was a seperate line on my pay stub yes but no taxes got charged.

On my example, *in orlando* the drivers would go from like $10.00 an hour ( current numbers, with zero taxable income) to over $20.00 an hour with min wage taxable.

Your taxes will undoubtably go up, but that's because pay is so utterly godawful that no one is owing taxes anyway.


And any "excess" that you have above and beyond the mileage reimbursement?

That's tax free income (multiplied if work on your car yourself)

Quite simply you would be getting paid to change your own oil *tax free* and pocketing the labor cost, instead of getting paid to pay someone else to change the oil, *tax free*.
 

NotanEmployee

Well-Known Member
Mileage reimbursement isn't taxable.

It doesn't HAVE to land on your w2, and your employer doesn't have to pay their half of it either.

Quite simply... (i've had a delivery job before way back when)

The mileage reimbursement was not taxable, and it didn't go onto the w2, federal taxes didn't come out of it.

I was paying taxes only on my hourly wage and tips the mileage was a seperate line on my pay stub yes but no taxes got charged.

On my example, *in orlando* the drivers would go from like $10.00 an hour ( current numbers, with zero taxable income) to over $20.00 an hour with min wage taxable.

Your taxes will undoubtably go up, but that's because pay is so utterly godawful that no one is owing taxes anyway.


And any "excess" that you have above and beyond the mileage reimbursement?

That's tax free income (multiplied if work on your car yourself)

Quite simply you would be getting paid to change your own oil *tax free* and pocketing the labor cost, instead of getting paid to pay someone else to change the oil, *tax free*.
Nowhere did i say reimbursements was taxable, in fact in a previous post i said it was not taxable. However if you can deduct those expenses you are ahead of the game. If you arent understanding the tax law then im not going to re explain it again. Get paid hourly as an employee and be happy about it!

Ill pay taxes on 2/3 less and be happier! ?
 

TXUbering

Well-Known Member
The only problem is that I'm sure Uber donates a lot of money to politicians that would seek to keep things the way they are. It's a shame we don't have transparency when it came to all money and all politicians. It would be interesting to see what candidates get what money from what entities. Would at least make for more informed voters.
 

Kenster

New Member
Nowhere did i say reimbursements was taxable, in fact in a previous post i said it was not taxable. However if you can deduct those expenses you are ahead of the game. If you arent understanding the tax law then im not going to re explain it again. Get paid hourly as an employee and be happy about it!

Ill pay taxes on 2/3 less and be happier! ?
Getting reimbursed $0.58/mile will gain you much more money than being able to use that $0.58/mile as a tax deduction. If you're in a 30% tax bracket you are getting 0.30x$0.58= $0.174/mile.

So if you drive 1000 miles:

Direct reimbursement yields you:
1000 x .58 = $580 and it's not taxable - this would include dead miles, miles to pickups, etc...

Tax write off:
Reduces your Gross income by $580 but you are only saving 30% (assuming 30% tax bracket) = $174

My math may be fubar but this is how I'm seeing it right now.
 

Stevie The magic Unicorn

Well-Known Member
Getting reimbursed $0.58/mile will gain you much more money than being able to use that $0.58/mile as a tax deduction. If you're in a 30% tax bracket you are getting 0.30x$0.58= $0.174/mile.

So if you drive 1000 miles:

Direct reimbursement yields you:
1000 x .58 = $580 and it's not taxable - this would include dead miles, miles to pickups, etc...

Tax write off:
Reduces your Gross income by $580 but you are only saving 30% (assuming 30% tax bracket) = $174

My math may be fubar but this is how I'm seeing it right now.
In some markets the math is far worse than others.

Especially when 1000 miles driven only makes you $500 in revenue now, when reimbursement alone would get you $580 on top of 50 hours of wages.

SO...

$500 (pay now for X fares in Orlando for about 50 hours ($10 an hour advertised by uber/lyft for this area)
(zero taxable)
VS


$580 (1000 miles of reimbursement)
+
$8.46 X 40 = $338 (min wage at 40 hours)
+
8.46 X 1.5 X 10 = $126 (10 hours of min wage at overtime)
$1044
{464 taxable}


AN upside... the costs of paying us to use a vehicle being as high as they are, there's no reason not to let us work more than 40 and get overtime. Which isn't 1.5 times the pay, it's only a fraction of that once you account for vehicle expenses.

It's only 19.96 an our VS $24.19 an hour, or less than 25% more pay. It would be easy to set up the customer cost on the basis of paying overtime rates 100% of the time and then it's extra profit made off part time drivers and those working under 40.
 

Juggalo9er

Well-Known Member
I can see it now, uniforms, required shift work, quotas, fired for refusing a pax no matter how unsafe it feels. No more deductions for mileage and ware and tare on YOUR vehicle. Taxes taken out of gross pay and youll make less than you are now. Uber will cease to exist there as drivers will learn the hard way what it would mean to drive YOUR vehicle as an employee.
As long as you are using your vehicle for anything work related the mileage is deductible.... Please educate yourself
 
Top