Lot of shootings lately

Nerka

Active Member
Eyes roll.... The obsession with Antifa is amusing.

The more interesting question is how many shootings in Portland?
 

MedicMan

Active Member
Eyes roll.... The obsession with Antifa is amusing.

The more interesting question is how many shootings in Portland?
It's not so amusing when you get threatened by them because you have a nice car. Or threatened because you have a car period. I have talked to a TNC driver who was threatened in one of the Antifa riots and he is 80 years old. Why would anyone threaten and 80 year old who is just driving his car to make a few extra dollars?
 

Nerka

Active Member
I'd rather have the Crips patrolling our city than Antifa. Antifa are fascists.
Utterly ridiculous both by definition and by reality:

1) Not all Antifa people are violent. Many of them just protest, albeit over things that often make no sense. They are silly in my opinion, but most are not violent, and have first amendment rights.
2) They are usually are not "patrolling streets". They come out to protest for cause of the month.
3) They don't carry guns so those that do make threat are not backed by lethal force.
4) Antifa is a reaction to right wing militia groups that usually do not reside in Portland and actively support violence and prejudice:
a) The Proud Boys often instigate violence and use the controversy to recruit more people. They have been charged in federal court with attempted assault and riot.​
b) Patriot Prayer leader Joey Gibson, has been charged with felony riot charges
c) The founder of the End Domestic Terrorism founder Joe Biggs is said to have "encouraged date rape and punching transgender people, told followers on Twitter to bring guns, declared “DEATH TO ANTIFA!!!!!!”, displayed a spiked weapon saying that it “will be put to good use,” and posted memes about death squads murdering leftists before his account was suspended".​
d) Right wing extremist have killed far more people nationwide. As an example, 75% of the people who mass murder are associated with extreme right wing hate ideology. Though they vary, most ideology has/is misogynistic, anti-LGBTQ, and racist in orientation. The nature of right wing hate groups reminds me of what Tolstoy said "Happy families are all happy in the same way. Unhappy families are all unhappy in different ways."​

It is clear that many of the comments about Antifa are a "strawman" used to reflect a strong dislike/hate of progressive people. If you can't respect people who have different viewpoints or who are progressive, which is virtually all of Portland, then you shouldn't drive in Portland. One should respect passengers. I personally have had passengers disparage Antifa and expound on other views that don't fully align with. As long as they are civil and interesting, I am always curious to learn about people's different experiences and opinions.

What disturbs me most about the above comments is not that people object to Antifa. There are good reasons to object to Antifa. It is the visible hate that I see in some of these comments. I actually googled someone's uberpeople member name once because the name had odd key words and numbers. The basic translation as it turns out was basically antisemitic and had a hidden racist comment about interracial marriage. This is why we can't have nice things.
 

crashman

New Member
My opinions about Antifa are based on what I've seen with my own eyes, and my own experiences with them. You're right that not all of them are violent - and that observation applies to all "far-right" groups as well. But blocking streets without a permit, attacked passersby, throwing things at the police and peaceful protesters are not activities that should be tolerated.
 

Nerka

Active Member
I agree. Violence and intimidation should not be tolerated. I do think that the city has gotten better about tolerating BS less.
 

Seth619navy

Well-Known Member
It would be nice if Mayor Wheeler didn't give Antifa free reign and not tell Portland PD to stand down when Antifa vandalize and attack independent journalists.
 

Nerka

Active Member
It would be nice if Mayor Wheeler didn't give Antifa free reign and not tell Portland PD to stand down when Antifa vandalize and attack independent journalists.
Having the police use violence against violence would, in the long run, not be beneficial. As I have noted, the violence associated with Antifa has decreased dramatically as both Antifa and the Police have figured out how to avoid violence. It is easy to get down on Wheeler, but having met him I can say he is not some freewheeling radical. He has to deal with what he has. If the police responded violently, and innocent people were killed or injured, the ramifications would not be good. I even know someone who is in Antifa who is a very nice guy who constantly protest with signs. Not my cup of tea, but he is like most of Antifa.

In fact, the right wing extremist are responsible for more indirect and direct deaths than Antifa. It interesting how people get down on Antifa, but give the corrupt right wing groups a pass who deliberately try to bait Antifa -although finally Antifa is beginning to realize that responding to every provocation is counter productive.
 

MedicMan

Active Member
Having the police use violence against violence would, in the long run, not be beneficial. As I have noted, the violence associated with Antifa has decreased dramatically as both Antifa and the Police have figured out how to avoid violence. It is easy to get down on Wheeler, but having met him I can say he is not some freewheeling radical. He has to deal with what he has. If the police responded violently, and innocent people were killed or injured, the ramifications would not be good. I even know someone who is in Antifa who is a very nice guy who constantly protest with signs. Not my cup of tea, but he is like most of Antifa.

In fact, the right wing extremist are responsible for more indirect and direct deaths than Antifa. It interesting how people get down on Antifa, but give the corrupt right wing groups a pass who deliberately try to bait Antifa -although finally Antifa is beginning to realize that responding to every provocation is counter productive.
I have been dealing with the Antifa crowd for over 30 years before they were Antifa. Most of the ones that I dealt with were not nice people and very much into anarchy. Many of them were not contributing to society and in fact taking from the society they detested. I have been attached by the Antifa crowd before they were Antifa and the people who attacked me and my co-workers had extensive criminal backgrounds and most were felons. I find them to be angry and violent. I have never been attacked by anyone in the right wing crowd even though I treated the for injuries sustained in some of the riots. They sure had their agenda and were not afraid to express it but they were polite and thankful for the treatment they got.

Being that the right wing can make the left wing dance whenever they want to speaks volumes. I have found that the left wingers are easy to wind up and seem to be driven by emotion over logic and reason. Some of them had some pretty weird ideas that would not work in current society.
 

crashman

New Member
I have been dealing with the Antifa crowd for over 30 years before they were Antifa. Most of the ones that I dealt with were not nice people and very much into anarchy. Many of them were not contributing to society and in fact taking from the society they detested. I have been attached by the Antifa crowd before they were Antifa and the people who attacked me and my co-workers had extensive criminal backgrounds and most were felons. I find them to be angry and violent. I have never been attacked by anyone in the right wing crowd even though I treated the for injuries sustained in some of the riots. They sure had their agenda and were not afraid to express it but they were polite and thankful for the treatment they got.

Being that the right wing can make the left wing dance whenever they want to speaks volumes. I have found that the left wingers are easy to wind up and seem to be driven by emotion over logic and reason. Some of them had some pretty weird ideas that would not work in current society.
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That's been my experience too. I had little idea what Patriot Prayer was all about, but I figured I'd find out, and I attended their rally. It was very peaceful, and extremely inclusive; people of all colors and genders. In the meantime, Antifa was screaming at us that we were "Nazis" and they were throwing disgusting things at the police. When the media reported it, it called Patriot Prayer "far right" and "Alt-Right." I never did figure out how they even define such terms.
 
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Nerka

Active Member
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That's been my experience too. I had little idea what Patriot Prayer was all about, but I figured I'd find out, and I attended their rally. It was very peaceful, and extremely inclusive; people of all colors and genders. In the meantime, Antifa was screaming at us that we were "Nazis" and they were throwing disgusting things at the police. When the media reported it, it called Patriot Prayer "far right" and "Alt-Right." I never did figure out how they even define such terms.
Most of these right wing groups have other relationships to other groups that are paranoid and blatantly antisemitic and racist. Often the views are disingenuous, sort of like "Will anyone rid me of this meddlesome priest" while saying ""oh, we have done nothing". But Antifa has not run people over with cars. Well over 75% of the mass murders subscribe to right wing extreme philosophies. The atmosphere they set up is very real. 20 years ago we never had these right wing groups and there were a lot less attacks on minorities and less mass murderers. I at least can see the issues with Antifa. I wish you folks could step back and see that those groups are not your friends. Their ideas are bad and are only notionally democratic. I won't defend Antifa's violence. Will you recognize the horrible philosophies and networks for these right wing groups? Maybe there is a better way all around,
 

MedicMan

Active Member
Most of these right wing groups have other relationships to other groups that are paranoid and blatantly antisemitic and racist. Often the views are disingenuous, sort of like "Will anyone rid me of this meddlesome priest" while saying ""oh, we have done nothing". But Antifa has not run people over with cars. Well over 75% of the mass murders subscribe to right wing extreme philosophies. The atmosphere they set up is very real. 20 years ago we never had these right wing groups and there were a lot less attacks on minorities and less mass murderers. I at least can see the issues with Antifa. I wish you folks could step back and see that those groups are not your friends. Their ideas are bad and are only notionally democratic. I won't defend Antifa's violence. Will you recognize the horrible philosophies and networks for these right wing groups? Maybe there is a better way all around,
I have to totally disagree with your post. Blacks would also disagree as the KKK and pro slavery south were all Democrats. The right wing Republicans promoted everyone being free. The conflict led to the Civil War and then the KKK after the war because the Democrats wanted to keep the blacks in line.

History is full of extremist group from both ends of the spectrum. I remember dealing with the Black Panthers in the 60's when I was running drugs. They were some of the most violent people I have ever met and they had some serious firepower with fully automatic BAR's, M16's. MK2 grenades, Thompson machine guns and plenty of plastic explosives that they used liberally in there terrorist activities and bombings.

To try and make it sound like this is a right wing thing is ignoring centuries of history.
 
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