House unanimously approves sweeping self-driving car measure

heynow321

Well-Known Member
any year now.....

musk said a SDC would drive itself coast to coast before the end of 2017. how is that coming along?
 

NHDriver

Well-Known Member
This is awesome! I can't wait for the Koreans, Russians or Chinese to hack the network all these cars would be driving on and send 2 million cars at one time down Pennsylvania Ave at 100mph to see if we blew them all up before they reached #1600. Or they could just have them circle the same rotary/roundabout for the entire day with people trapped in them.
 

mikes424

Well-Known Member
This is awesome! I can't wait for the Koreans, Russians or Chinese to hack the network all these cars would be driving on and send 2 million cars at one time down Pennsylvania Ave at 100mph to see if we blew them all up before they reached #1600. Or they could just have them circle the same rotary/roundabout for the entire day with people trapped in them.

It would also give terrorists a new means to get bombs to their targets.
 

NHDriver

Well-Known Member
I wonder if they will get deactivated for Navigation complaints when they get hacked. Def gonna be some professionalism complaints.
 

Maven

Well-Known Member
Anybody have the actual TEXT of the bill passed? :rolleyes: Was the legislation written entirely by the corporations? :frown: I'd like to see what, if any, safe-guards exist. What about provisions for the pedestrian, driver, or even tester who is involved in an accident with a SDC. Are their liability limits? Can they be brought into court at all? I'm sure there are many exemptions and protections for the corporations using American cities as their laboratories and citizens as unknowing lab rats. :mad:
 

jocker12

Well-Known Member
Anybody have the actual TEXT of the bill passed? :rolleyes: Was the legislation written entirely by the corporations? :frown: I'd like to see what, if any, safe-guards exist. What about provisions for the pedestrian, driver, or even tester who is involved in an accident with a SDC. Are their liability limits? Can they be brought into court at all? I'm sure there are many exemptions and protections for the corporations using American cities as their laboratories and citizens as unknowing lab rats. :mad:
Here you go

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/IF/IF00/20170727/106347/BILLS-115-HR3388-L000566-Amdt-9.pdf
 

Maven

Well-Known Member
Thanks :smiles: As I suspected
  • Section 3 prevents any state from more restrictive laws designed to better protect their citizens.
  • Section 4 says
    • for the next 2 years "safety assessment letters shall be submitted to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration." No mention of any safety standards or penalties.
    • After 2 years, the Secretary of Transportation in the Trump administration will create new safety standards. We know how important public safety is when it decreases corporate profits. :frown:
  • Section 6 allows each company to sell up to 100,000 SDCs each year. Then they can apply for an exemption to sell more.
I gave up at that point. :frown:
 

jocker12

Well-Known Member
Thanks :smiles: As I suspected
  • Section 3 prevents any state from more restrictive laws designed to better protect their citizens.
  • Section 4 says
    • for the next 2 years "safety assessment letters shall be submitted to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration." No mention of any safety standards or penalties.
    • After 2 years, the Secretary of Transportation in the Trump administration will create new safety standards. We know how important public safety is when it decreases corporate profits. :frown:
  • Section 6 allows each company to sell up to 100,000 SDCs each year. Then they can apply for an exemption to sell more.
I gave up at that point. :frown:
Here is a big problem they have - if this project passes into a law, all the manufacturers need to submit their testing and operating data to the government and make it available to the general public under Freedom of Information Act.
Also on page 23 under e - Duties and Subcommittees, pay attention to (9), listed on page 25 - key term "adverse weather conditions". Ooooops!
 

tohunt4me

Well-Known Member
any year now.....

musk said a SDC would drive itself coast to coast before the end of 2017. how is that coming along?
Well
A Solar plane flew around the world.

Dont see any at airports yet . . . . . . .

Thanks :smiles: As I suspected
  • Section 3 prevents any state from more restrictive laws designed to better protect their citizens.
  • Section 4 says
    • for the next 2 years "safety assessment letters shall be submitted to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration." No mention of any safety standards or penalties.
    • After 2 years, the Secretary of Transportation in the Trump administration will create new safety standards. We know how important public safety is when it decreases corporate profits. :frown:
  • Section 6 allows each company to sell up to 100,000 SDCs each year. Then they can apply for an exemption to sell more.
I gave up at that point. :frown:
This is the same Govt. That mandated Asbestos for schools and Hospitals . . .

This is awesome! I can't wait for the Koreans, Russians or Chinese to hack the network all these cars would be driving on and send 2 million cars at one time down Pennsylvania Ave at 100mph to see if we blew them all up before they reached #1600. Or they could just have them circle the same rotary/roundabout for the entire day with people trapped in them.
At least it will keep them from hijacking commercial jets . . .
 

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123dragon

Active Member
Thanks :smiles: As I suspected
  • Section 3 prevents any state from more restrictive laws designed to better protect their citizens.
  • Section 4 says
    • for the next 2 years "safety assessment letters shall be submitted to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration." No mention of any safety standards or penalties.
    • After 2 years, the Secretary of Transportation in the Trump administration will create new safety standards. We know how important public safety is when it decreases corporate profits. :frown:
  • Section 6 allows each company to sell up to 100,000 SDCs each year. Then they can apply for an exemption to sell more.
I gave up at that point. :frown:

THat's the main purpose the bill. The federal government is realizing that if they allow each state to make their own rules it will be impossible to have this go live. The federal government is going to have to establish the rules which is no different then anything else the interstate commerce act applied to.

I don't think it's a bad thing that NHTSA takes this on. It's already kind of informally going on, Nat Beuse has lead a lot of the Safety thinking with a lot of these companies already.

Automakers need the federal government to lead the change is this is going to have a shot of working. This needs to be a public/private partnership because the government doesn't have all the expertise, their programs have been around for 5 years while companies like google have been doing research for 10-15. Policy suggestions have come from manufacturers and government.

The senate may change a lot of this. They already were drafting their own bill the House just pushed their bill first.

Here is a big problem they have - if this project passes into a law, all the manufacturers need to submit their testing and operating data to the government and make it available to the general public under Freedom of Information Act.
Also on page 23 under e - Duties and Subcommittees, pay attention to (9), listed on page 25 - key term "adverse weather conditions". Ooooops!

This is a good thing. Other countries such as Sweden have this provision. The problem is since everyone is gathering data in their own way it won't get much value in aggregate unless we figure out a way to transform it to all be similar. This is a of data with many different points. Sweeden has the same problems.
 

jocker12

Well-Known Member
This is a good thing.
Yes, because the general public it will be able to understand the technology limitations and the corporate lies about it, like it happened when leaked data showed how Uber’s autonomous cars drove 20,354 miles and had to be taken over at every mile, according to documents in March 2017.

Other countries such as Sweden have this provision.
Sweden has a socialist economic system not even comparable with the American system. I wont mention Sweden in this discussion at all, because you can easily be labeled as socialist, and you don't want that to happen. Believe me. Also their legislation regarding corporations is far different than American protective legislation system regarding corporations.

The problem is since everyone is gathering data in their own way it won't get much value in aggregate unless we figure out a way to transform it to all be similar
If you think the corporations involved in the research and development of the "highly automated vehicles" share their sensitive data about their work (even if they signed specific partnerships inside the industry) , no offense, but you either have no clue about how corporations work and what are their primary goals, or you are simply delusional.

Their competitors testing data means almost nothing to them, as long as the main players are focused on different guidance systems (at this point shifting to a more performant system could be impossible), and their aim is not competition (like any reasonable person would think) buy how to eliminate their competition and establish a monopoly over the future of transportation.

You sound like a romantic dreamer thinking how these sharks could be elegant with each other or care a bit for their potential customers. Reality check - Do you think anybody at Apple will shed a tear if Google goes bankrupt in the near future or vice versa? Do you think GM will try to financially help Ford or Toyota if those car manufacturers will file for chapter 11? How many times have you seen Uber hugging Lyft because the drivers and the riders have no brand loyalty whatsoever? These bandits go for the throat. One of them makes a mistake, looks the other way and it's done. They wouldn't be there if they wouldn't' be like that.
 
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123dragon

Active Member
Yes, because the general public it will be able to understand the technology limitations and the corporate lies about it, like it happened when leaked data showed how Uber’s autonomous cars drove 20,354 miles and had to be taken over at every mile, according to documents in March 2017.


Sweden has a socialist economic system not even comparable with the American system. I wont mention Sweden in this discussion at all, because you can easily be labeled as socialist, and you don't want that to happen. Believe me. Also their legislation regarding corporations is far different than American protective legislation system regarding corporations.


If you think the corporations involved in the research and development of the "highly automated vehicles" share their sensitive data about their work (even if they signed specific partnerships inside the industry) , no offense, but you either have no clue about how corporations work and what are their primary goals, or you are simply delusional.

Their competitors testing data means almost nothing to them, as long as the main players are focused on different guidance systems (at this point shifting to a more performant system could be impossible), and their aim is not competition (like any reasonable person would think) buy how to eliminate their competition and establish a monopoly over the future of transportation.

You sound like a romantic dreamer thinking how these sharks could be elegant with each other or care a bit for their potential customers. Reality check - Do you think anybody at Apple will shed a tear if Google goes bankrupt in the near future or vice versa? Do you think GM will try to financially help Ford or Toyota if those car manufacturers will file for chapter 11? How many times have you seen Uber hugging Lyft because the drivers and the riders have no brand loyalty whatsoever? These bandits go for the throat. One of them makes a mistake, looks the other way and it's done. They wouldn't be there if they wouldn't' be like that.
The point of that provision is for DOT and Army to have access to that data. Both NHTSA and FHWA are doing modeling in conjunction with the army engineering group to create their own simulation models to test autonomous cars. The government models is an idea taken from Sweeden. In order for the federal government to be able to build models and create safety tests they need access to the data.
 

jocker12

Well-Known Member
The point of that provision is for DOT and Army to have access to that data. Both NHTSA and FHWA are doing modeling in conjunction with the army engineering group to create their own simulation models to test autonomous cars. The government models is an idea taken from Sweeden. In order for the federal government to be able to build models and create safety tests they need access to the data.
If the DoD wants their data, there are other ways to do it, but at this point, they are working on a slightly different approach because the challenges they are facing are different.

In my opinion this is happening because of the corporate lobby and the eventuality of corporate testing, because there was no legal frame for this sector. This is the beginning of the end.
 
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