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HELP ME CREATE CHANGE . It’s show time.

Discussion in 'Advice' started by Uber315, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Independent contractor

  2. Employee

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Uber315


    I need everyone help in creating the largest possible list of reason that you all feel that we are misclassified as Independant contractors . In other words what does Uber do that makes you feel like an employee . Now if you feel like you are an independent contractor I would love to hear why you feel that way. I must say some are independent contractors but there are some that are misclassified .
    Umdriving likes this.
  2. We are employees. A contractor, would know, what a job pays and the expectations of said job, before each endeavour. We dont know what we are getting paid, or where we are going, before we embark on each trip.

    Like a salaried or hourly employee. The boss tells you where to go each day, and you go.

    We should know where we are going, and what each job pays before hand. Like any other contractor.
  3. Uber315


    You mean kind of like grub hub and doordash and lyft and postmates .
  4. Never used any of those, but the concept is really basic. How much does it pay, what do i need to do...tap to agree.
    WonderLeeWoman likes this.
  5. SuzeCB


    I keep saying it, and it doesn't seem to be getting through...


    Employees work where and when the boss says to, and they do everything the boss tells them to within the scope of their duties.

    No picking your shift, or how long it would last. No refusing pings or a pax that raises the hairs on the back of your neck. Any tips received in app could be pooled with other driver's in the same market for the same shift and distributed evenly across the board.

    Pusher, CJfrom619, Bluto1899 and 24 others like this.
  6. Uber315


    There are different situations in different states Uber runs this different in every state . It is not a uniform policy. I am not scared of work . You think you make your own shift . The algorithms control everything. They have people working where they need them at all times and it’s not by coincidence. If drivers are going to be independent contractors then treat them as such . The problem is they can’t becuade they would not have the workforce they need. That’s why they have to have control over the drivers earnings . That’s why they rip drivers off.

  7. SuzeCB


    I didn't think I made my own shift. I know I did. I worked when I felt like it, and didn't when I didn't. When I needed to take time off to take care of my son or my son, I did so without having to check in with someone. If I needed an hour off I took it. I also went anywhere in my state where I wanted to to work. I avoided picking up and neighborhoods that I didn't want to pick up in. I did not have to accept everything in order to be considered consistently working so that I could make minimum wage. These are all the things that have to be considered before you ask for employment versus independent contractor status.
  8. flyntflossy10


    I think every night we all know what we're getting into. We all take the risks of driving. Knowing full well what could happen. SuzeCBSuzeCB is right. Be careful what you ask for. Could you imagine being scheduled for a completely dead part of the night? I mean somebody has to be logged on. What about inclement weather, but still be required to work? Even if our cars can't handle snow or storms?

    For now, I'll stick to taking a chance on a ping versus the alternative. I will not drive for Uber if I'm an employee.
  9. Uber315


    Fair enough but as I said in the original post some are employees and some are IC . Every driver has a different experience with the Uber platform . Also I don’t know how they operate and manipulate things in NJ . I just know south Florida . That’s why I’m trying to here things from different places . I want people to speak up . No be quieted . I can tell NJ is a blue state
  10. reg barclay

    reg barclay Moderator

    rockland/westchester NY, new jersey
    While what you say is technically true for a lot of contractors, I'm not sure how much it works like that practically.

    I know someone who had their own business for a few years. Yes, they were informed of the job details beforehand, and could choose to accept it or not. However, an important part of drumming up business was customer recommendation. Also, the customers who needed smaller/less profitable jobs, were often the same ones who came back needing bigger ones. So practically speaking, they couldn't afford to exercise that privilege so much, and still expect many customers. I don't know how much this is the norm with similar gigs, but I imagine it is.
    Rakos and islanddriver like this.
  11. sellkatsell44

    sellkatsell44 Moderator

    I think there’s some confusion...

    Uber classifies you as contractors. And maybe someone can clarify better for me but the way I see it...
    Behavioral Control: A worker is an employee when the business has the right to direct and control the work performed by the worker, even if that right is not exercised. Behavioral control categories are:

    • Type of instructions given, such as when and where to work, what tools to use or where to purchase supplies and services. Receiving the types of instructions in these examples may indicate a worker is an employee.
    • Degree of instruction, more detailed instructions may indicate that the worker is an employee. Less detailed instructions reflects less control, indicating that the worker is more likely an independent contractor.
    • Evaluation systems to measure the details of how the work is done points to an employee. Evaluation systems measuring just the end result point to either an independent contractor or an employee. Does being rated by the passenger...and the potential to be kicked off the app aka “fired” if one’s rating gets too low count? Does the helpful “emails” on how to get “5 stars” as an driver count as training?
    • Training a worker on how to do the job -- or periodic or on-going training about procedures and methods -- is strong evidence that the worker is an employee. Independent contractors ordinarily use their own methods

    See. For all intents and purposes Uber wants the relationship to be defined as contractor. They don’t want the liabilities of having employees.

    But they also expect you to maintain a certain standard. There’s a rating system. There’s a reporting system. Uber can terminate their “contract” with you if you don’t adhere to the image Uber wants to present.

    Someone clarify, what happens if you cancel too many times? If you have too many emails about your cancelation rate? Or nonacceptance rate? What if you kept getting pings that were 20+ minutes away and you just refuse to go that far? Technically you can “pick” your route as a contractor...but wait, you don’t even know the full details of the fare until you accept the ping—so if it’s not a fare you want, you’ll have to cancel.

    Do you still need to take courses if you fall below 4.6? Do you still get deactivated based on performance that is judged by passengers’ ratings?

    If at the heart of it, Uber says it’s a contractor type of relationship—all they should care about is that you have a car that passes inspection (so it’s basically safe) and not care about the year/make/model.

    They should not care that your car isn’t the cleanest. There shouldn’t be a way for the rider to rate you based on that, or to report you for “car quality” “conversation” etc. Passengers are paying for a seat in a car that is going to pick them up at the location they put and drop them off at the location they choose. That’s it. No aux cord, charging cord, water, mint, etc...

    Because at the heart of it, Uber is saying they provide an app to connect you to a passenger and a passenger to you.

    They’re not in the business of transportation.

    They’re not your employer. Yet they’ll give you feedback based on your trips. They’ll give you evaluations based on the trips and heck, now they’re giving the top 2% a reward for job well done...

    It’s such a gray area. On one hand I can see how some see it as contractor relationship...on the other hand, I see Uber exerting some control over how Uber drivers get their fares. It’s not as simple as hey, there’s Jane and she wants to go from 103 main to 901 Hudson. It’s hey, drive around and we’ll send you a ping. You won’t know the exact assignment. You’re just going to have to take it and do it or take it and cancel, or if you have esp just let the ping expire.

    If you take it and cancel, we’re not going to incentivize that. So we’re not going to send you as many pings. If you cancel too many times. We’re going to put you on a time out.
  12. Uber315


    Thanks so much . Very well spoken !
    sellkatsell44 likes this.
  13. SEAL Team 5

    SEAL Team 5


    You really filled out one of these for Uber?

    Did you claim exempt on line 7?

    This was a very informative post. Have you ever seen gov't contracts or contracts for work on Tribal land. Many contracts have specific requirements of times allowed to work, a required percentage of ethnic workers on the job site at all times, apparel that is to be worn, cleanliness of workplace, both private and public inspections of work throughout the course of the contract, wage requirements for your employees (prevailing wage), specific methods of applications.

    So, even though contractors are self employed there are specified ways that are required when performing contract work.
    flyntflossy10 and sellkatsell44 like this.
  14. This made me feel tingly. Smart women are awesome.
    Termie, Rakos, 404NofFound and 2 others like this.
  15. Even better when they're hot :cool:
  16. Seamus


    New York
    There is already a model for comparison, Taxi Driver and Limo Driver. Go talk to some ex Taxi/Limo Drivers and see how that worked out for them. If you think that is for you then by all means stop "Partnering" with Uber/Lyft and go get a job as a Taxi/Limo Driver so you can be an employee. That might sincerely be best for some people. We all have different needs and reasons for why we do this. For me, I am an Independent Contractor and whats most important is that I have the ability to make my own hours. Wouldn't do this as an employee.
  17. 1.5xorbust


    San Diego
    As an employee you lose all flexibility as to when to drive which is the one big incentive.
    Cary Grant, Termie and Cableguynoe like this.
  18. SuzeCB


    The questions that you raised here are ones have been raised repeatedly. They tend to make it sound like the average independent contractor it doesn't get all of these things from the contractor that it doesn't get all of these things from the general contractor that they work for. But they do. The general contractor outlines with the customer what the job is expected to be. If an electrician doesn't show up when they say they're going to, and they do it repeatedly, the general contractor will no longer do business with that electrician. If the general contractor tells an electrician that an outlet needs to be in a particular place, it's not the electricians choice to put it on the other side of the room or in a different room. If a general contractor gets too many complaints that an electrician was loud and obnoxious and dirty and stinky, the general contractor is not going to continue to do business with them because otherwise he's not going to get as much work as he could otherwise. If an electrician just flat-out turns down too much work that a general contractor asks him to do, the contractor will take him off of his list of electricians to use. If a customer complains that an electrician showed up on the job drunk, that electrician is going to be removed from the job as soon as the complaint is made. Whether or not that electrician is giving any other jobs may well depend on whether this is the first complaint or not. More than one complaint of this sort, in most jobs, does provide some support to the idea that they're all true. The difference in Uber's case is that they have, literally, put a bounty on driver heads by offering a $25 credit if the complaint results in the driver being deactivated permanently. That poses a problem.

    Then there is the question of whether the subcontractor get all of the information about the job up front, before accepting or refusing it. For that, you have to take into consideration what the particular industry's standard is. I don't know about in your Market, but in New Jersey, and a New York, the standard is that the driver does not know. They don't find out until the passenger is in the car and gives them the destination, and they then call back into dispatch and confirm the destination with them, because it affects the price if it gets changed.

    From the, admittedly, little research that I have done, laws against destination discrimination our Inn place in quite a few major city areas. This would include refusing to take someone because the ride is too short, unprofitable within the normal stated rates, or because you don't want to go to a particular neighborhood or municipality. Not giving the driver the destination is how the companies, weather Taxi or TNC, help present destination discrimination. Yes, of course it helps their bottom line most of the time. TNCs more than taxis. But it is widespread enough to be considered an industry standard, and as such, not proof of employee over independent contractor status.
    alaex and doyousensehumor like this.
  19. oldfart


    Fort Myers
    I work the airport and we Uber/lyft drivers share an air conditioned building with bathrooms, a tv and vending machines with the taxi drivers

    It’s not hard to tell the difference between us and them. The taxi drivers are all wearing white shirts, ties and black pants and black shoes. I’m wearing jeans and a tee shirt, they drive company owned cars and I own my car. They are here from the first incoming flight of the day until the last; every other day. I come and go as I please. They buy gas and split fares 50/50. I pay all my own expenses and my split with Uber is about 65/35

    They are employees and I’m an independent businessman. And that’s the way I want to keep it
    Cary Grant, dmoney155 and Termie like this.
  20. I set my own hours and receive pay based on agreed upon rates. I consider myself and independent contractor.

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