Elon Musk is a dumbass

getawaycar

Well-Known Member
In case you don't understand this is all experimental. They are trying, but hung up on a possibly impossible problem.
Experimental with human guinea pigs? When did Musk ever claim it to be experimental?
Something that is sold to any member of the public who wants to buy it in the open market is not an experiment, it is a commercial product.

The system is falsely advertised as self-driving when in fact it is not.
By definition an SDC should require very little if any human supervision.
 

The Gift of Fish

Well-Known Member
Experimental with human guinea pigs? When did Musk ever claim it to be experimental?
Something that is sold to any member of the public who wants to buy it in the open market is not an experiment, it is a commercial product.

The system is falsely advertised as self-driving when in fact it is not.
By definition an SDC should require very little if any human supervision.
You have to realize that Elon Musk is a showman; a salesman. And a brilliant one at that. He gets people to pay thousands of dollars for functionality that nearly works, and "will definitely be ready at some point in the future when the software is finished".

I think that most rational and lucid people realize that the "self-driving" part of his cars is just a gimmick, albeit a very expensive gimmick. It is sad that people who didn't realise this have indeed won the Darwin Award while reading the newspaper, catching up on Facebook, watching videos on their phones etc while driving down the highway in "full auto" mode. But these people are the exception.
 
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getawaycar

Well-Known Member
You have to realize that Elon Musk is a showman; a salesman. And a brilliant one at that. He gets people to pay thousands of dollars for functionality that nearly works, and "will definitely be ready at some point in the future when the software is finished".

I think that most rational and lucid people realize that the "self-driving" part of his cars is just a gimmick, albeit a very expensive gimmick. It is sad that people who didn't realise this have indeed won the Darwin Award while reading the newspaper, catching up on Facebook, watching videos on their phones etc while driving down the highway in "full auto" mode. But these people are the exception.
You got that right. The self-diving car is indeed a gimmick and scam,
albeit a dangerous one that has costed people their lives.

But who cares about public safety, as long as someone can make a buck selling their brilliant scam to idiots its all good.
Musk is indeed a brilliant con artist.
 

_Tron_

Well-Known Member
Yeah he's built a billion dollar tech company that just launched the first Americans into space from American soil in 10 years....
But who cares about public safety, as long as someone can make a buck selling their brilliant scam to idiots its all good.
Musk is indeed a brilliant con artist.
Unless the OP is himself a dumbass, the title is probably geared to make the natives restless. None the less it has a point. 'Auto pilot' has been pushed by Tesla too far and too fast. Why? Bottom line, it's the way Musk's mind is wired. He is pedal to the metal on all his projects, and if he wasn't we wouldn't have all the amazing products he has catalyzed. You have to take the good with the bad.

Autopilot is the weak link in the product line in terms of product safety. Cadillac, for example, has taken a far more rational approach by only allowing AP to function on pre-mapped highways. It also tracks that the driver's eyes are on the road, and can even detect if the driver has been drinking.... and shuts off if any of those conditions become true.

Still, at the end of the day it is the driver that is accountable. What's most dangerous about AP is the human tendency to let down the guard when all has been going well for a time. This will likely continue until all vehicles on the road are autonomous. I have two Teslas on order... both sans AP. I simply don't trust myself with the tech.

Oh, btw, falling into the 'Musk is a con artist' trap simply means you are unable to think for yourself and have been swallowing that line put out by the ignorant and the ones threatened by the future.
 

Madisoy

Member

DriverMark

Well-Known Member
(shrug) ...... I see accidents just about daily from idiots that are driving themselves.

See folks getting slapped with DIU just about every night I'm out driving nights and bar closing.

Tesla has less than a dozen or so accidents over the last year or two and now he is an idiot. Seems every incident is front page headlines if a Tesla and SDC is involved.

He is the front running innovator of his generation.
 

sellkatsell44

Well-Known Member
FIFY
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Still not going to be any level 5 SDC in this decade.
I honestly don’t know, I would say mass no. But my tiny brain can’t comprehend the possibilities with AI.

I’m just all for zero emissions and lowering carbon footprint.
 

Amos69

Well-Known Member
I honestly don’t know, I would say mass no. But my tiny brain can’t comprehend the possibilities with AI.

I’m just all for zero emissions and lowering carbon footprint.
I mentioned before that I found Tesla cars to feel soulless I have never owned one, but like you I have lots of friends who do or have. I borrowed a P85D for a weekend trip down to stumptown and around. A very nice car, and well built but so modern and clean (not dirty but setup and ergonomics) that I just didn't really care for it. Conversely I owned a Fiskar Karma which my friend drove for that weekend. The Fiskar Karma was a much more well rounded electric car. I know Henrik is working on another EV project, I do hope this time he gets a broader release without the funding issues that doomed the Karma project. I sold that Karma after two years for $30,000 more than I bought it for.
 

sellkatsell44

Well-Known Member
I mentioned before that I found Tesla cars to feel soulless I have never owned one, but like you I have lots of friends who do or have. I borrowed a P85D for a weekend trip down to stumptown and around. A very nice car, and well built but so modern and clean (not dirty but setup and ergonomics) that I just didn't really care for it. Conversely I owned a Fiskar Karma which my friend drove for that weekend. The Fiskar Karma was a much more well rounded electric car. I know Henrik is working on another EV project, I do hope this time he gets a broader release without the funding issues that doomed the Karma project. I sold that Karma after two years for $30,000 more than I bought it for.
I don’t think they’re soulless but they’re definitely Apple like.

It would be awesome if there’s a way to outfit more Tesla engineering into classics. There was a 911 that was outfitted with a Tesla interior...
 

Amos69

Well-Known Member
I don’t think they’re soulless but they’re definitely Apple like.

It would be awesome if there’s a way to outfit more Tesla engineering into classics. There was a 911 that was outfitted with a Tesla interior...
There are many companies converting classics to electrical vehicles Specifically there is a company in FLA that does Porsche products.

I wouldn't wish a Tesla interior on my worst enemy. Running gear and technology on the other hand.
 

SHalester

Well-Known Member
Running gear and technology on the other hand.
...what I don't understand with a nicely designed vehicle, they put a large SQUARE screen inside. Kills the look, from the outside. Still, tho from the outside S model rocks. Inside, not so much.
 

Amos69

Well-Known Member
OIP.jpg
The interior of the Karma

Tesla makes good cars, but the overly modern and sparse interiors are a real turn off to most car guys. My friend with the P85D that I would borrow sold it and replaced it with an R35MY
 

SHalester

Well-Known Member
Tesla makes good cars
agreed. but the interior they opted for spartan and square vs nice leather and curves. That said, still want one. Model 3, maybe. The problem is neither of my current vehicles are due to be replaced. A good thing I suppose. A model 3 would be a huge improvement over my wife's precious prius.
 

Launchpad McQuack

Well-Known Member
He is pedal to the metal on all his projects, and if he wasn't we wouldn't have all the amazing products he has catalyzed. You have to take the good with the bad.
No, you don't. Being pedal to the metal is fine. I definitely respect what he has accomplished in terms of technological developments. That is no excuse to sell technology to the public that is not ready for public use, though, especially when that technology can kill people when it malfunctions. I don't have a problem with him aggressively developing self-driving technology. I have a major problem with him selling it to the public when it still has significant functional flaws, though, and after seeing this video, it is difficult to argue that it doesn't have significant functional flaws.

I'm interested to hear the explanation for exactly what went wrong here.......if an explanation is ever provided. I know it seems obvious to say this, but this shouldn't happen. I've been saying for a long time that there are a lot of difficult challenges to overcome in order to make Level-5 (fully autonomous) self-driving cars a reality, and I am skeptical that anybody will be able to overcome those challenges in the near future. What is shown in this video is NOT one of those challenges, though. This is something that I thought was already solved. All that was required in this scenario was to detect a large, stationary object blocking the road ahead and not run into it. That is as rudimentary as it gets for self-driving cars. It doesn't get any more basic than "Don't run into large stationary object." I would expect a college student to be able to write functional code for that. It is not a significant challenge.

So what happened? How did the car screw up that bad? There are two options that I can think of:

1. Sensor failure. The sensors that are used to detect objects in the road ahead weren't working correctly and the software did not receive the correct data.

2. Software failure. The sensors were working fine, but the software either did not interpret the sensor data correctly or did not act correctly upon that data.

Both of these are really software problems. Even if the root cause is a sensor failure, the software should be able to detect the failure of such a critical sensor and either not allow the autopilot to be engaged or prompt the driver to take control of the vehicle if the autopilot is already engaged. If they didn't have any software checks in place for such a critical sensor, then that is just sloppy design.
 
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