• UberPeople.NET - Independent community of rideshare drivers. It's FREE to be a person and enjoy all the benefits of membership. JOIN US! CLICK HERE

Drivers cancelling rides

DrDorifto

Member
Hey guys, dunno whether you guys are hearing the same sort of chatter from riders, I'd be interested to know if you are.

Over the past few weeks I have had customers mention in conversation, when asked about how they are finding uber in Canberra, that a couple of them have had drivers cancel on them. Now this isn't just your normal cancel when passengers don't show, or pax cancelling rides, but instead drivers are contacting passengers, after accepting a ride and actually asking them what their destination is and if if it too short a ride, they are actually cancelling on the pax! This makes me furious!

I have advised the riders that they should complain to uber if they can remember the ride and also to do the same in the future if it happens again. I'm sure uber won't be too happy with the driver. Hopefully if there are enough complaints, these rogue drivers will get booted off the platform and leave the driving to the people who actually want to make something of this. I'm sure some of you enjoy earning the extra income like I do so I definitely don't want pax turned off using uber because of a few bad eggs.

I encourage others in this forum to do the same, if you hear of it happening to other passengers. By reading some of the posts here, it sounds like you guys are doing a great job out there. Also, while I'm ranting, let's get out there, while waiting for an airport ride and say gday to other drivers waiting for a ride. I had the pleasure of meeting Jack in person a couple of weeks ago
 

Who is John Galt?

Well-Known Member
Author
but instead drivers are contacting passengers, after accepting a ride and actually asking them what their destination is and if if it too short a ride, they are actually cancelling on the pax! This makes me furious!
OMG! I nearly wet myself when I read this!!!!
You cannot be serious!!!!
Can this be real???

Now, after a bex and a good lay down, and when my brain was actually engaged, I started thinking why wouldn't you call?
Is there a rule against this?
Many say there is, but I am yet to see it.
I would love you to provide it.
 

Jack Malarkey

Well-Known Member
I have had only one passenger refer to this practice in Canberra. She said I was the fifth driver to accept her trip request and thanked me for turning up. She was travelling from the Calwell shops to Theodore (about an $8 fare if I recall correctly).

She said three of the four had cancelled when she told them the destination. With the fourth, she had refused to advise her destination over the phone and he had cancelled anyway without further comment.

As a passenger myself, I had a driver phone me from Lonsdale Street, Braddon at 3.00 am on a weekday when I was travelling from home in Curtin to the Jolimont Centre in the city (a fare of about $20) for a coach to Sydney. My first request for a ride went unanswered so I made a second request.

The accepting driver phoned me. I thought he was going to ask for my destination but he was in fact phoning to make sure I wasn't going to cancel on him as he had a 15-minute drive to reach me.

I think the practice of phoning passengers and asking for their destination is unfortunate and all the more so in Canberra where our rates at $2.35 start, $1.35 a kilometre and 45 cents a minute are significantly higher than anywhere else in Australia except Sydney.

If some drivers cherry pick the longer rides, it leaves the shorter rides to those drivers who don't engage in the practice. This can then become a vicious cycle, and undermine the overall quality of the service we provide.
 
Last edited:

DrDorifto

Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Hey John, after an extensive 30 second search I found this. Im sure if i searched harder i would find more info supporting this. Or uber would definately have some sort of obscure rule tucked away.

In any case, before uber launched in Canberra, at the training sessions it was stated that drivers are not told where the rides are to in an effort to stop cherry picking the good rides and also so that the passengers get collected probably. Irregardless of were they were going to.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Jack Malarkey

Well-Known Member
There is nothing in the terms and conditions that expressly prohibits the practice. However, Uber maintains the contractual right to deactivate drivers at any time and without a reason (or words to that effect).

The fact that Uber doesn't disclose the passenger's destination suggests that they don't want drivers to cherry pick rides. This helps differentiate them from taxi services where passengers, say, in Campbell or the Australian Defence Force Academy can find it difficult to get a taxi to the airport.

Uber's deactivation policy does refer to (unspecified) high cancellation rates as being a reason for deactivating drivers. See https://www.uber.com/legal/deactivation-policy/anz-en/.

The help information is also inconsistent with the practice. See https://help.uber.com/h/520c1520-14f7-4144-b581-8f18846a8174.
 
Last edited:

Who is John Galt?

Well-Known Member
Author
Im sure if i searched harder i would find more info supporting this.
There it is - the urban myth perpetuated:

Hey John, after an extensive 30 second search I found this.
And what exactly is this? Well, well it is an opinion piece. Opinion pieces, suggestions and platitudes to riders or drivers on facebook or similar are fluff.



Im sure if i searched harder i would find more info supporting this.
Here's the thing. Both you and I know you won't search harder. And even if you did, you won't find what you believe is there. Coz it ain't.



Or uber would definately have some sort of obscure rule tucked away.
Where? In the terms and conditions? Have you read them?



In any case, before uber launched in Canberra, at the training sessions it was stated that drivers are not told where the rides are to in an effort.....
You will soon discover that drivers are told many things - and they are also not told many things.
There are mistruths and mistruths by omission.
Deal with these in your own way, but don't mistake opinions, suggestions or platitudes for facts.

edit reason: finessing
 
Last edited:

Bampot

Active Member
If I have a job which is over 15 mins away I ring and check it is not going around the corner, and tell them I am cancelling as it is too far to expect me to run for a small amount. I think this is fair. However, the awful taxi habit of cherry picking will get us a bad name, and I detest it.

This has become entrenched in the taxi industry, and is very destructive. It makes people unwilling to use a service as it becomes unreliable, and leads to a lot of aggro and ill feeling between drivers and riders.

I am a great supporter of the logic of Uber's dispatch system, and of taking every job that comes up within reason. I say within reason as there are times we are offered jobs that are just too far away and are likely to be cancelled, leaving us exposed for time and effort.

The mindset of some of the taxi drivers is in some ways odd, but there are some reasons behind it - but they don't apply to Uber!!!!

In the first instance, with overpriced Canberra cabs, they stand idle for long periods, and thus need a decent length fare to make that investment in time useful. In the bigger cities, the networks usually have areas they work in a lot, so can guarantee radio work in those areas, and areas where they generate very little work. This has always meant that drivers are averse to going to the areas where their network is thin on the ground. Combine that with an aversion to short fares and they are VERY picky, which pisses the punters off. A million years ago when I did my taxi training course in Sydney the guy running it however stressed to us never to be reluctant to pick short fares up, as when it was quiet they might be all we got, and we should not do anything to make people reluctant to use taxi's for short fares.

When I was a radio operator for the then Taxis Combined Services in Sydney the powers that be knew that all of this was detrimental to getting people and cabs meeting up in the most efficient manner, but were constantly meeting resistance from drivers to change the system, which when a job was called (in the days when operators actually spoke!) included the destination. When I was working in the radio room they did try to introduce a first call with no destination...but the drivers stopped accepting jobs on the first call, and on the second as a sop to them the destination was included. It was back to business as usual soon after.

Ok, so the reason for this small bit of history is that in Canberra, and I think this applied to both taxis and Uber, as we are both essentially one network, with no regional focus, we can go anywhere and expect a job. A good hourly rate will be built on a combination of small and longer jobs...the best job you ever get may rely on some small insignificant fare that puts you in the position to get the long/profitable job.

The point I am getting to is that we don't have a crystal ball, and the Uber app, as far as I know, offers the job to the closest car. If we accept, within reason, the vast majority of jobs we are offered (I certainly do), then that is the most efficient way to using our time, and of keeping customers happy. If we pick and choose like the taxis have done we are less efficient, and I know from talking to customers we are starting to be seen as taking on some of the problematic habits of the taxi industry. There are very many good reasons they are held in such low regard for customer service and reliability...let's not follow that route (to use a transport analogy).
 

DrDorifto

Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
And what exactly is this? Well, well it is an opinion piece. Opinion pieces, suggestions and platitudes to riders or drivers on facebook or similar are fluff.
It was a screen shot taken from the uber newsroom.

Here's the thing. Both you and I know you won't search harder. And even if you did, you won't find what you believe is there. Coz it ain't.
Thanks for the assuming you know me.. After asking uber, because as you would already know there isnt anything written anywhere that anyone can find easily they said,

" Yes, riders can let us know when a partner refuses destination and we will further investigate what happened to the trip. To maintain fairness in the Uber platform, an agent will reach out to both the rider and the partner to hear both sides."

You will soon discover that drivers are told many things - and they are also not told many things.
There are mistruths and mistruths by omission.
Discovered that awhile ago... Thanks

Anyhow, not looking for trouble. Just thought some of you might have had the same experience.
 

MelbaGuy

Active Member
For what its worth, I have done over 2,000 rides in Canberra and not a single pax has mentioned to me the call and cancel tactic to avoid short fares. So I'm calling bullsh*t on this thread.

For me, I generally won't take a call greater than 10 minutes, unless it is on the boundary of the outer suburbs and therfore most likely is coming back inwards.
 

Bampot

Active Member
I have done over 4000 rides now, and have only recently had this sort of thing reported to me. It seems to be relatively recent, and enough people have told me about it for me to assume it is a 'thing'. I assume it is part of people trying to work out ways to game the system.

Apart from getting us a bad name, it is also poor treatment of ones fellow drivers for someone to think they are so special they 'deserve' what they see as the good jobs, leaving the rest of us plebs can pick up the short ones.

These is also no need to call bullshit on people reporting what they have been told. Uber is new to Camberra, and there will be an evolution of both driver and passenger behavior, so we will see all sort of 'innovations'...some good and some not.
 

Who is John Galt?

Well-Known Member
Author
If some perhaps had an insight into what is actually happening in the street à la [click :rolleyes: here] there may be a greater understanding as to why some call ahead (in some circumstances).

The bottom line is this ~ Über operates on a 'no prisoners' basis and is noted for throwing tantrums when things don't go its way.

Über has [for varying periods] operated outside the law in every country that it has entered.
For Über to turn around and state that drivers are flaunting their rules is simply laughable.
What is good for the goose.......

The problem for Über going forward is that Kalanick and his merry bunch of troubadours, in thinking that they could, did and can flaunt many countries laws; think that it will stop when they want it to. It won't. They have opened Pandora's box and the game has just begun.

[Just as an aside ~ for anyone who was not aware ~

In 1998, Travis Kalanick, along with Michael Todd and Vince Busam, dropped out of UCLA to help Dan Rodrigues found Scour Inc., a multimedia search engine, and Scour Exchange, a peer-to-peer file sharing service. In 2000, the Motion Picture Association of America, the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), and the National Music Publishers Association (NMPA) brought a lawsuit against Scour, alleging copyright infringement. In September of that year, Scour filed for bankruptcy to protect itself from the lawsuit.

Just be aware of the ethics of the c0-founder of this this great company]


edit reason: additional thoughts / editing / spelling / grammar / et al
 
Last edited:

Bampot

Active Member
Wow...that is cynical. Are people doing that here?

You are right about Uber's corporate manners too!

An economist from Treasury explained to me how Uber manage to avoid tax in Oz. They maintain that the only exchange of $ that concerns them is the fee Uber Oz pay to Uber for the licencing of the intellectual property of the app...strangely enough this 'fee' is such that Uber Oz cannot make a profit, meaning the tax is payable in of all places Holland. Also cynical.
 

DrDorifto

Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
I have done over 4000 rides now, and have only recently had this sort of thing reported to me. It seems to be relatively recent, and enough people have told me about it for me to assume it is a 'thing'. I assume it is part of people trying to work out ways to game the system.

Apart from getting us a bad name, it is also poor treatment of ones fellow drivers for someone to think they are so special they 'deserve' what they see as the good jobs, leaving the rest of us plebs can pick up the short ones.

These is also no need to call bullshit on people reporting what they have been told. Uber is new to Camberra, and there will be an evolution of both driver and passenger behavior, so we will see all sort of 'innovations'...some good and some not.
Agreed. Ive done a fair few rides too and this issue is relatively new. I thought it was a once off but apparently not.
 
Last edited:

Jack Malarkey

Well-Known Member
See the report in the Brisbane forum by Paul Collins that 60 drivers in Queensland have been deactivated for phoning passengers to find out the destination: see https://uberpeople.net/threads/12-golden-rules-of-uber-x-driving.143065/.

See also the post in that thread that incorporates advice to a driver that they've been permanently deactivated. (I never cease to be amazed how Uber wraps up bad news in linguistic cotton wool.)
 

Bampot

Active Member
This is what happens when you outsource things to AI's controlled by chimpanzees.

I am actually pleased to hear of people being 'logged off with extreme prejudice' for doing this. We need to distinguish ourselves from the taxi industry on not just price but reliability. This is especially the case in Canberra, as lots of people have their transport paid for by their work, so are not cost sensitive, but also don't like the poor service and unreliability of the Canberra taxis. If we are going to continue to build on getting APS work in daylight hours then people getting phone calls asking for destinations is going to put paid to that very quickly! If you actually do this, then think about the fact that you are not just screwing your fellow drivers as well as the passengers, you are also doing yourself a disservice, as it is likely to create less work over time.
 

Driver Zero

Active Member
If this practice keeps up, riders will just either refuse to answer or lie about their intended destination.
"I'm going to the airport"
What are you you going to do then partners?
 

Skyring

Well-Known Member
Author
I accept just about every ride offered to me, no matter how far away. I don't care how short it is. Short fares are the best earners on a mileage basis, just as they are for taxis. Just going around the block? That's six bucks, thanks for the money. Even with Uber's 25% that's $4.50 and that's not to be sneezed at. I'd do short fares all day long if I could.

For taxis, it's an even sweeter deal with the flagfall.

Drivers get into the mindset of thinking "I only get three calls an hour, I need to make them as long as possible." That's stupid. It's random, and if you are the closest car, you get the call.

The business grows itself if drivers accept all calls. If Uber gets a reputation for stuffing passengers around, then it hurts everyone.

The way to make money in this game is to have a passenger beside you and the wheels turning. If you are spending your time rejecting calls, then you aren't making money.
 
Top