Drivers are not sole proprietors (business operators)

Nigel L

Member
Uber drivers are not running a business as a sole proprietor.

Uber riders (the payer) pays Uber for every trip, not the drivers. Tax invoices issued to riders do not come from the drivers' businesses.

Drivers can not set their own prices (fares) and drivers do not collect payments from riders as would any business operator.

Drivers are actually Uber employees. Uber trip allocation algorithm decides when you work, how you work, who you pick up, how you do the work. You are an employee not an independent contractor.

Sham contracts have been used by Uber to deceive drivers and avoid GST.

Keep proper records of your time online. You maybe owed back wages unless you have been completing and submitting BAS.

It is tax fraud for Uber to be using drivers ABN and not their own for receiving GST inclusive payments from riders.
 

KenBruceHasGoneMad

Well-Known Member
Uber drivers are not running a business as a sole proprietor.

Uber riders (the payer) pays Uber for every trip, not the drivers. Tax invoices issued to riders do not come from the drivers' businesses.

Drivers can not set their own prices (fares) and drivers do not collect payments from riders as would any business operator.

Drivers are actually Uber employees. Uber trip allocation algorithm decides when you work, how you work, who you pick up, how you do the work. You are an employee not an independent contractor.

Sham contracts have been used by Uber to deceive drivers and avoid GST.

Keep proper records of your time online. You maybe owed back wages unless you have been completing and submitting BAS.

It is tax fraud for Uber to be using drivers ABN and not their own for receiving GST inclusive payments from riders.
Rubbish.

You're a sole trader.
...

Please don't waste forum space with hopes.

DA, ABN, GST..
,A CAR ,A PHONE..

...all you need , to
" be your own boss"

...
 

KenBruceHasGoneMad

Well-Known Member
My rider's receipts have my ABN on it..
and the money in my bank came from the rider, via the uber app, which I use, like gocatch as well, to make money.

What's your point?.

Don't wanna pay tax or something?.

Then don't.

Just drive ,buddy.
 

EyesWIDEopen

Well-Known Member
Uber drivers are not running a business as a sole proprietor.

Uber riders (the payer) pays Uber for every trip, not the drivers. Tax invoices issued to riders do not come from the drivers' businesses.

Drivers can not set their own prices (fares) and drivers do not collect payments from riders as would any business operator.

Drivers are actually Uber employees. Uber trip allocation algorithm decides when you work, how you work, who you pick up, how you do
the work. You are an employee not an independent contractor.

Sham contracts have been used by Uber to deceive drivers and avoid GST.

Keep proper records of your time online. You may be owed back wages.
Very true Nigel...
There is a lot of legal jargon involved in the contract we signed with uber...
It's imperative that us drivers know the legalities of what we have signed...
We have not signed anything with the ATO, GOVERNMENT OR ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS...

We should be sending the state government a bill for all the damage potholes, speed humps, and excessive stoplights are doing to our privately owned cars which apply for a permit to use government roads called registration...

I could talk on these subjects for hours and hours but there's a time and a place for that...

Anyway, here's a little tip, never pay for a toll on a privately owned toll way...
I haven't for over 5 years...
They have no power to enforce this...

Remember... Thinking for yourself is the new BLACK...!!!
 

Earn2burn

Active Member
You blokes really don’t know what’s going on in the world do you ?

NFI.....

All over the world, slowly but surely the courts are ruling that Uber drivers are employees not contractors.... Yet you blokes are driving with blinkers on.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/nypos...d-be-legal-employees-with-benefits-judge/amp/

Uber drivers are not running a business as a sole proprietor.

Uber riders (the payer) pays Uber for every trip, not the drivers. Tax invoices issued to riders do not come from the drivers' businesses.

Drivers can not set their own prices (fares) and drivers do not collect payments from riders as would any business operator.

Drivers are actually Uber employees. Uber trip allocation algorithm decides when you work, how you work, who you pick up, how you do the work. You are an employee not an independent contractor.

Sham contracts have been used by Uber to deceive drivers and avoid GST.

Keep proper records of your time online. You maybe owed back wages unless you have been completing and submitting BAS.

It is tax fraud for Uber to be using drivers ABN and not their own for receiving GST inclusive payments from riders.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/nypos...d-be-legal-employees-with-benefits-judge/amp/
 

KenBruceHasGoneMad

Well-Known Member
You blokes really don’t know what’s going on in the world do you ?

NFI.....

All over the world, slowly but surely the courts are ruling that Uber drivers are employees not contractors.... Yet you blokes are driving with blinkers on.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/nypos...d-be-legal-employees-with-benefits-judge/amp/


https://www.google.com.au/amp/nypos...d-be-legal-employees-with-benefits-judge/amp/
I don't wanna be an uber employee
Lol.

Geez, 95% of current drivers wouldn't get hired,
If it was true employment..

Which its not.

Show me an uber payslip...
From anywhere in the world.

With all the bells and whistles.

I'll wait.
 

UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
Show me an uber payslip...
From anywhere in the world
Receiving payslips isn't what makes someone an employee, it's the totality of the relationship that does according to our courts. And the totality of the relationship doesn't paint the same picture that Uber would like us all to see. I don't expect someone who's gone COMPLETELY MAD to apply any sort of logic, legal principle or precedent to a topic such as this.
 

MyRedUber

Well-Known Member
Uber drivers are not running a business as a sole proprietor.

Uber riders (the payer) pays Uber for every trip, not the drivers. Tax invoices issued to riders do not come from the drivers' businesses.

Drivers can not set their own prices (fares) and drivers do not collect payments from riders as would any business operator.

Drivers are actually Uber employees. Uber trip allocation algorithm decides when you work, how you work, who you pick up, how you do the work. You are an employee not an independent contractor.

Sham contracts have been used by Uber to deceive drivers and avoid GST.

Keep proper records of your time online. You maybe owed back wages unless you have been completing and submitting BAS.

It is tax fraud for Uber to be using drivers ABN and not their own for receiving GST inclusive payments from riders.
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.
You are a Sole Trader. You have an ABN. You are registered for GST.
Uber do not issue Tax Invoices, they issue receipts. If your customer asks you for a Tax Invoice, you have to provide one. I carry Tax Invoice blanks in my car and will write one up if asked.
As far as Tax law is concerned, Uber are acting as a payment service, not unlike PayPal, Visa, etc. The driver is the one receiving the payment from the customer. The fact that the payment goes via Uber is irrelevant.
 

DH_uber

Active Member
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.
You are a Sole Trader. You have an ABN. You are registered for GST.
Uber do not issue Tax Invoices, they issue receipts. If your customer asks you for a Tax Invoice, you have to provide one. I carry Tax Invoice blanks in my car and will write one up if asked.
As far as Tax law is concerned, Uber are acting as a payment service, not unlike PayPal, Visa, etc. The driver is the one receiving the payment from the customer. The fact that the payment goes via Uber is irrelevant.

Right, Right, Right. A number of jurisdictions have already ruled that Uber drivers are employees.
 

UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
You have an ABN. You are registered for GST.
Uber do not issue Tax Invoices, they issue receipts.
Our courts say this doesn't determine the issue and can be a consequence of how the party with greater bargaining power chooses to characterise the relationship. In many court cases these types of facts have been disregarded and the workers have been found to be employees.
As far as Tax law is concerned, Uber are acting as a payment service, not unlike PayPal, Visa, etc.
Uber is nothing like PayPal, etc. These payment services don't dictate what prices your customers pay, don't control how your business operates, don't unilaterally refund customers without consulting you, and won't pay you if your customer hasn't been charged/lacks funds.
The driver is the one receiving the payment from the customer. The fact that the payment goes via Uber is irrelevant.
The money flows from rider to Uber. Noone can deny that this happens. Whether or not this should be treated as an agency arrangement is intimately tied in with the question of whether or not drivers are employees. Drivers are far from being truly independent contractors. There are too many things that we are not allowed to do that Uber explicitly controls.
 
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UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
OK. Start behaving like an employee in regard to GST, Income Tax, etc. See how you go.
We are required to comply with ATO guidance on their interpretation of the law, even if their interpretation is wrong. The ATO has lost many tax cases, so clearly their interpretation of the law isn't always right. They will change their tune if drivers are found by a court to be employees. If they're wrong, then obviously we get paid back any taxes that we shouldn't have paid. We would have paid income tax anyway, so that means payback of GST.
 

MyRedUber

Well-Known Member
If they're wrong, then obviously we get paid back any taxes that we shouldn't have paid. We would have paid income tax anyway, so that means payback of GST.
Wrong again. The customer pays GST, not the driver and not Uber.
GST has always been a tax on the final retail customer. In this case that's the passenger.
We are obliged by Australian law to collect it from the customer on behalf of the ATO.
No-one will be refunded GST.
 

UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
Wrong again. The customer pays GST, not the driver and not Uber.
GST has always been a tax on the final retail customer. In this case that's the passenger.
We are obliged by Australian law to collect it from the customer on behalf of the ATO.
You are entitled to an opinion, but it doesn't agree with the view of the High Court on this issue. And that is the GST is passed on to customers by a business. The High Court's opinion trumps yours. No GST has been paid until the business that is liable for it pays the ATO.
No-one will be refunded GST.
Drivers would be refunded and Uber would have to pay instead in the event that we are found to be employees.
 
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UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
Please point me to this High Court decision, I would be interested in reading the ruling and the context.
The case was decided in 2012 and was between Qantas and the Commissioner of Taxation (ie. the ATO) regarding whether GST was payable on fares that had been forfeited. Qantas argued that no supply had been made where the passenger hadn't flown, and therefore no GST was payable. The High Court disagreed, overturning the Full Court of the Federal Court's decision.

Knock yourself out:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/HCA/2012/41.html

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/HCA/2012/41.html said:
6. The fares were calculated to recover from the customer the GST payable on the amount of those fares. On payment of the fare the GST amount was recorded by the airline as a debt due to the Commissioner; the balance was credited to unearned income until the flight was taken or the fare was forfeited.
 

MyRedUber

Well-Known Member
It matters not how you misinterpret rulings of the High Court to a different situation.
If ever Uber drivers become employees, the GST that has been collected from the passengers and passed on to the ATO will not be refunded to the drivers. In the extremely unlikely event that some GST refund were to occur, it would be to the customer, but that will never, never, never happen.

This dead horse has been flogged so many times in this forum. Please grant yourself some peace and stop believing in your own wishful thinking in relation to the tax law. You are not going to get any GST back. It would be illegal for you to retain GST for yourself.
 

MyRedUber

Well-Known Member
The only possible change at some time in the future is that companies such as Uber, GoCatch, etc, will be required to collect the GST and pass it on to the ATO. If that happens, the driver won't see the money; the driver's payout will be reduced by an amount equal to the GST.

The fundamental design of the Goods and Services Tax has always been that it is a tax on the final retail transaction. It is not a tax on the business, and it's not a tax on the customer. In the current contractual relationships, the final retail transaction is between the passenger and the driver, regardless of the fact that the customer's payment passes through a couple of other hands before it gets to the driver, starting with Visa or Mastercard, then the bank, then Uber, then the driver's bank, etc...
 
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