Don't get fooled by the revenue, the pay for most Uber markets is around or less than min wage

MSPDriver

Member
Here in Minneapolis, at 65 cents a mile and $12/hr while driving (and a laughable 35 cent base fare and $3.37 minimum) with about 66% uptime, along with the tips from less than half the riders, surge, and even with incentives which typically add up to 2-5 dollars an hour, grinding out Uber quests even with a low-cost vehicle is looking like it pays around minimum wage ($10) here. How I figured this out: typically, I earn about a dollar a mile in revenue, unless I get too many boonies/airport trips in one night. For example, today I pulled in 212.93 in revenue on 25 trips in 10.25 hours. Assuming I get the $130 for 70 riders promotion (dependent on me grinding tonights), this also accounts for $36.11. Overall, that's $249.09. Doesn't sound bad for one day, right? $25 an hour revenue. However, using the standard mileage deduction of 0.575 on 245.5 miles, I only earned $107.92. For slightly over 10 hours of work. And at this rate, I have to work 50 hours a week to meet my very minimalistic budget. Now, I might be a little more like 40 cents to 50 cents a mile, so best case I earned $150.89, but with my repairs being so unusually high these few months, I wouldn't be surprised if cost even exceeded the federal deduction for this time period.

$10-15 an hour, no paid benefits, risking your life and property, doing inconvenient things like cleaning up puke, working overnights in my case and not being able to have a normal life (I feel like days would pay even less). Plus, if you get tired, take a break, work anything less than 10 hours, you won't get as much extra per trip, and your effective pay will be lower than minimum wage in spite of you working overtime. I'm sure this topic has been thoroughly covered on here, I just can't stop thinking about it and it's affecting my conversations with pax now that I realize I'm basically working for McDonald's money not the "up to" $18-$25 an hour I have seen posted in the ads. Most riders seem surprised when I spell it out to them. They also don't realize how much of the fare uber takes. I need to stop venting about it to them but they always ask me how I like working for Uber but I'm an honest person and find it hard not to mention the pay or the fact that my life is a hellish disaster and I'm in a financial crisis because I got fooled by the revenue. Maybe it will get better in summer in this market (and worse in some others), but with these rates, the smart drivers are gonna drop out sooner or later. I have been looking at job postings for months but finally leaning towards getting a real job if it can pay $20. Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death or belongs in the "pay" forum, and vet drivers already know, but hopefully I have convinced some of you that you were making less than you thought.
 

IthurstwhenIP

Well-Known Member
I don’t think of it that way, but it may be case specific

if I did not drive for Uber I would still need to own a car.
If you look at the components of the IRS mileage deduction, about sixty percent for me are fixed costs versus true variable costs with mileage.
(I need insurance regardless, I need maintenance...it’s just accelerated, I need to make payments)

So I see my true variable rideshare costs per mile much closer to 18 to 24 cents.

everyone can be different, and maybe you live where you can walk and would not need the car if not for Uber
 

MSPDriver

Member
Good point. I live in the city. I am trying to get out of Minneapolis and it's nice to have a car but I would really consider buying a bus pass or something based on where I live if I didn't have my car and use it for work the past few years. The car also needs to be maintained to a higher standard (I wouldn't be fixing this check engine light or windshield crack or bumper if it weren't for Uber), so my overall vehicle costs would be higher if it wasn't for Uber. I may be overestimating it due to my recent repairs totaling something like $3000 in two months but I used 20 cents a mile as an estimate for repairs based on what has actually occurred and what I expect in the future. I also wouldn't mind using my Civic til it dies, but I'm gonna need to buy a new car soon if I want to do this past August assuming I can even afford to fix my car right now before I pass the inspection. The true cost estimation is fairly complicated and variable, which is why a lot of drivers don't even know what's going on. Also don't forget fuel. That's pretty much a standard 10 cents a gallon for me. I would also argue insurance, if included, costs around 5 cents a mile. Then of course the cost of the car. 10 cents a mile roughly, maybe 15 if it's a nice or new car. And I based the low end estimate on $400 a month in vehicle expenses on 4000 miles for 10 cents a mile. Might be up to 15. So somewhere between 30-50 cents a mile depending on how much you value the car as a method of transportation, your market, and how much you drive.

You can't really know the true cost though before you drive, since the cost varies so much. Maybe all you'll need is oil changes, brakes, and routine maintenance. In which case, your cost may even be as low as 30 cents if you are in a very fuel efficient, old car that you got a good deal on. However, in my case, I had tire repairs, a bad valve cover gasket, alternator going out (on NYE!), random cracked windshield, and now coolant issues, a lightly cracked bumper, an airflow sensor check engine light, a bad timing belt cover gasket, and apparently a loose battery terminal, all within a month and a half. I had to put off these repairs simply due to being cash strapped and out of credit. I'm gonna have to check with another mechanic to make sure it's all legit, otherwise I'm gonna have to get some sort of additional loan and then grind to pay my bills. Also, in my case and many other Uber drivers, we are paying interest on many of these expenses. Don't forget about the tax bill if you actually do work the full year! Anyway, there are a lot of ways to analyze it, but the point is it's at the very least not what they advertise "up to" $25 an hour. That would require you to take in $35 an hour or so in revenue for a long period of time. How I'm looking at it now is it's minimum wage plus bonuses and tips. And you know how that goes.
 

Ubertool

Well-Known Member
Here in Minneapolis, at 65 cents a mile and $12/hr while driving (and a laughable 35 cent base fare and $3.37 minimum) with about 66% uptime, along with the tips from less than half the riders, surge, and even with incentives which typically add up to 2-5 dollars an hour, grinding out Uber quests even with a low-cost vehicle is looking like it pays around minimum wage ($10) here. How I figured this out: typically, I earn about a dollar a mile in revenue, unless I get too many boonies/airport trips in one night. For example, today I pulled in 212.93 in revenue on 25 trips in 10.25 hours. Assuming I get the $130 for 70 riders promotion (dependent on me grinding tonights), this also accounts for $36.11. Overall, that's $249.09. Doesn't sound bad for one day, right? $25 an hour revenue. However, using the standard mileage deduction of 0.575 on 245.5 miles, I only earned $107.92. For slightly over 10 hours of work. And at this rate, I have to work 50 hours a week to meet my very minimalistic budget. Now, I might be a little more like 40 cents to 50 cents a mile, so best case I earned $150.89, but with my repairs being so unusually high these few months, I wouldn't be surprised if cost even exceeded the federal deduction for this time period.

$10-15 an hour, no paid benefits, risking your life and property, doing inconvenient things like cleaning up puke, working overnights in my case and not being able to have a normal life (I feel like days would pay even less). Plus, if you get tired, take a break, work anything less than 10 hours, you won't get as much extra per trip, and your effective pay will be lower than minimum wage in spite of you working overtime. I'm sure this topic has been thoroughly covered on here, I just can't stop thinking about it and it's affecting my conversations with pax now that I realize I'm basically working for McDonald's money not the "up to" $18-$25 an hour I have seen posted in the ads. Most riders seem surprised when I spell it out to them. They also don't realize how much of the fare uber takes. I need to stop venting about it to them but they always ask me how I like working for Uber but I'm an honest person and find it hard not to mention the pay or the fact that my life is a hellish disaster and I'm in a financial crisis because I got fooled by the revenue. Maybe it will get better in summer in this market (and worse in some others), but with these rates, the smart drivers are gonna drop out sooner or later. I have been looking at job postings for months but finally leaning towards getting a real job if it can pay $20. Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death or belongs in the "pay" forum, and vet drivers already know, but hopefully I have convinced some of you that you were making less than you thought.
Don’t look at per hour rate, concentrate on $$$ earned per mile driven . Over $1 should be your benchmark , actually that’s my benchmark. Good luck .
Post automatically merged:

Don’t like it? Don’t drive.
Stfu
 

Syn

Well-Known Member
I have been looking at job postings for months but finally leaning towards getting a real job if it can pay $20.

Why $20/hour? Using your logic you currently make around or less than $7.25/hour so if that's true - then even $9.00/hour would've been a huge improvement, right? So why are you driving for Uber instead of working at let's say Walmart?
 

MSPDriver

Member
Why $20/hour? Using your logic you currently make around or less than $7.25/hour so if that's true - then even $9.00/hour would've been a huge improvement, right? So why are you driving for Uber instead of working at let's say Walmart?

Well I'm going off more the state minimum wage of $9.86 here in MN. I can overall still make more money with Uber than Walmart because I can get more hours. Plus I do think my pay will go up in summer a little. Still looking at my options. Plus if I'm going to change the work I do and lose the flexibility of this job I want it to be a step forward in terms of pay and skill so I don't just have the same problem of being unable to afford my life.
 

TCar

Well-Known Member
Well I'm going off more the state minimum wage of $9.86 here in MN. I can overall still make more money with Uber than Walmart because I can get more hours. Plus I do think my pay will go up in summer a little. Still looking at my options. Plus if I'm going to change the work I do and lose the flexibility of this job I want it to be a step forward in terms of pay and skill so I don't just have the same problem of being unable to afford my life.
Here is an idea.
40 hours week Walmart.
20-30 hours a week uber.
 

UberAdrian

Well-Known Member
I think that’s way too generous. Pretty sure if all drivers knew math the real number is something like 30%-50% of min wage.

However, I find rate calculations to be amateurish and weak. There are many creative strategies to win at RS and the best ones don’t care about rate.

I rely heavily on two tricks that I haven’t seen anyone else doing. Filling all of my downtime between pings with other productive work that makes money and stacking multiple payments on top of the same trips/work. Sometimes, if I play my cards just right I can get paid 5 times for the same trip.
 

Stevie The magic Unicorn

Well-Known Member
IRS deductible mileage rate is NOT the same as actual cost to operate a passenger vehicle. If driving 245 miles cost you $143, you need to find another occupation.

over 230,000 miles my Seinna was at 45c a mile (including commercial taxi insurance thou)

It's amazing but yes i dropped $100,000 on a sienna over 3 1/2 years grand total. Half was insurance/purchase price. But then again i brought in over $240,000 over 3.5 years...
 

DPF

Member
Here in Minneapolis, at 65 cents a mile and $12/hr while driving (and a laughable 35 cent base fare and $3.37 minimum) with about 66% uptime, along with the tips from less than half the riders, surge, and even with incentives which typically add up to 2-5 dollars an hour, grinding out Uber quests even with a low-cost vehicle is looking like it pays around minimum wage ($10) here. How I figured this out: typically, I earn about a dollar a mile in revenue, unless I get too many boonies/airport trips in one night. For example, today I pulled in 212.93 in revenue on 25 trips in 10.25 hours. Assuming I get the $130 for 70 riders promotion (dependent on me grinding tonights), this also accounts for $36.11. Overall, that's $249.09. Doesn't sound bad for one day, right? $25 an hour revenue. However, using the standard mileage deduction of 0.575 on 245.5 miles, I only earned $107.92. For slightly over 10 hours of work. And at this rate, I have to work 50 hours a week to meet my very minimalistic budget. Now, I might be a little more like 40 cents to 50 cents a mile, so best case I earned $150.89, but with my repairs being so unusually high these few months, I wouldn't be surprised if cost even exceeded the federal deduction for this time period.

$10-15 an hour, no paid benefits, risking your life and property, doing inconvenient things like cleaning up puke, working overnights in my case and not being able to have a normal life (I feel like days would pay even less). Plus, if you get tired, take a break, work anything less than 10 hours, you won't get as much extra per trip, and your effective pay will be lower than minimum wage in spite of you working overtime. I'm sure this topic has been thoroughly covered on here, I just can't stop thinking about it and it's affecting my conversations with pax now that I realize I'm basically working for McDonald's money not the "up to" $18-$25 an hour I have seen posted in the ads. Most riders seem surprised when I spell it out to them. They also don't realize how much of the fare uber takes. I need to stop venting about it to them but they always ask me how I like working for Uber but I'm an honest person and find it hard not to mention the pay or the fact that my life is a hellish disaster and I'm in a financial crisis because I got fooled by the revenue. Maybe it will get better in summer in this market (and worse in some others), but with these rates, the smart drivers are gonna drop out sooner or later. I have been looking at job postings for months but finally leaning towards getting a real job if it can pay $20. Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death or belongs in the "pay" forum, and vet drivers already know, but hopefully I have convinced some of you that you were making less than you thought.
You are greatly flawed in using the IRS standard mileage rate when calculating your vehicle expenses when figuring your actual profit.
Very few circumstances will the actual cost of operating your vehicle come out to $.58/ mile! You need to use your ACTUAL expenses when calculating your profit.

Take the purchase price of your vehicle + any financing costs if you financed the car.
Then estimate what the value of the car would be , if any, when you would go to sell it or trade it in.
Next, use your actual records from a given year and see what your actual costs were for routine maintenance, fuel, repairs, insurance, state or city taxes or fees, etc. (You can also find online the estimated maintenance and repair costs for a specific vehicle over the lifetime of the car. Use that for estimates and comparison of your own records)

1)add the original vehicle purchase and finance cost then subtract the market value at the end of car’s lifetime.
2)Now add to this the actual costs you would pay over that ownership period for all those operational, maintenance and repair costs.
3)This will give you the actual cost of owning that vehicle over a period of time.
4)Now estimate how many miles would be on that car over the lifetime of the car. For example 300,000 miles over 6 years)
5) Now divide that number from step 3 by the mileage in step 4 and you will get your true cost/ mile of owning that vehicle.
if you own an economical car that you didn’t pay an outrageous amount for and you keep it in good repair, I guarantee you that car is not going to cost you anywhere near 58 cents per mile.
I did this on a new 2018 Nissan Sentra and the cost was more in the $.30-$.33/ mile range.

You use that IRS STANDARD MILEAGE RATE for income tax calculation and savings only.
That is one of the great benefits available as being classified as an IC rather than an employee.... You could possibly get $50,000 in gross Rideshare income down to a taxable income of the $10,000 range. Then from that when you figure in your Standard personal deduction on your 1040 tax return you are legally basically paying ZERO income tax and a modest amount of Self Employment Tax... Not gonna be able to do that as a w2 employee.....
 

rockpuck

New Member
Here in Minneapolis, at 65 cents a mile and $12/hr while driving (and a laughable 35 cent base fare and $3.37 minimum) with about 66% uptime, along with the tips from less than half the riders, surge, and even with incentives which typically add up to 2-5 dollars an hour, grinding out Uber quests even with a low-cost vehicle is looking like it pays around minimum wage ($10) here. How I figured this out: typically, I earn about a dollar a mile in revenue, unless I get too many boonies/airport trips in one night. For example, today I pulled in 212.93 in revenue on 25 trips in 10.25 hours. Assuming I get the $130 for 70 riders promotion (dependent on me grinding tonights), this also accounts for $36.11. Overall, that's $249.09. Doesn't sound bad for one day, right? $25 an hour revenue. However, using the standard mileage deduction of 0.575 on 245.5 miles, I only earned $107.92. For slightly over 10 hours of work. And at this rate, I have to work 50 hours a week to meet my very minimalistic budget. Now, I might be a little more like 40 cents to 50 cents a mile, so best case I earned $150.89, but with my repairs being so unusually high these few months, I wouldn't be surprised if cost even exceeded the federal deduction for this time period.

$10-15 an hour, no paid benefits, risking your life and property, doing inconvenient things like cleaning up puke, working overnights in my case and not being able to have a normal life (I feel like days would pay even less). Plus, if you get tired, take a break, work anything less than 10 hours, you won't get as much extra per trip, and your effective pay will be lower than minimum wage in spite of you working overtime. I'm sure this topic has been thoroughly covered on here, I just can't stop thinking about it and it's affecting my conversations with pax now that I realize I'm basically working for McDonald's money not the "up to" $18-$25 an hour I have seen posted in the ads. Most riders seem surprised when I spell it out to them. They also don't realize how much of the fare uber takes. I need to stop venting about it to them but they always ask me how I like working for Uber but I'm an honest person and find it hard not to mention the pay or the fact that my life is a hellish disaster and I'm in a financial crisis because I got fooled by the revenue. Maybe it will get better in summer in this market (and worse in some others), but with these rates, the smart drivers are gonna drop out sooner or later. I have been looking at job postings for months but finally leaning towards getting a real job if it can pay $20. Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death or belongs in the "pay" forum, and vet drivers already know, but hopefully I have convinced some of you that you were making less than you thought.
I noticed this weekend a way they scam the average driver income per hour higher than it really is - something I've never paid attention to before. I drove 12 hours on Friday, the first time I've done that on one app in the 3 years I've been a driver. It's desperately slow, what can ya do. When I checked my driver time available I still had nearly 4 hours ... because according to Uber, if you're waiting for a ride, you're not actually driving for Uber. You're just chillin in your car. So it makes complete sense that in my market the average earnings for 40hrs of driving is supposedly "$998" .. if you don't count all the hours you'll be sitting in your car doing absolutely nothing at all. That's nearly $25/hr - I averaged $16hr for the week. Minus expenses it's about $12-13. Ouch.
 

Johnny Mnemonic

Well-Known Member
Here in Minneapolis, at 65 cents a mile and $12/hr while driving (and a laughable 35 cent base fare and $3.37 minimum) with about 66% uptime, along with the tips from less than half the riders, surge, and even with incentives which typically add up to 2-5 dollars an hour, grinding out Uber quests even with a low-cost vehicle is looking like it pays around minimum wage ($10) here. How I figured this out: typically, I earn about a dollar a mile in revenue, unless I get too many boonies/airport trips in one night. For example, today I pulled in 212.93 in revenue on 25 trips in 10.25 hours. Assuming I get the $130 for 70 riders promotion (dependent on me grinding tonights), this also accounts for $36.11. Overall, that's $249.09. Doesn't sound bad for one day, right? $25 an hour revenue. However, using the standard mileage deduction of 0.575 on 245.5 miles, I only earned $107.92. For slightly over 10 hours of work. And at this rate, I have to work 50 hours a week to meet my very minimalistic budget. Now, I might be a little more like 40 cents to 50 cents a mile, so best case I earned $150.89, but with my repairs being so unusually high these few months, I wouldn't be surprised if cost even exceeded the federal deduction for this time period.

$10-15 an hour, no paid benefits, risking your life and property, doing inconvenient things like cleaning up puke, working overnights in my case and not being able to have a normal life (I feel like days would pay even less). Plus, if you get tired, take a break, work anything less than 10 hours, you won't get as much extra per trip, and your effective pay will be lower than minimum wage in spite of you working overtime. I'm sure this topic has been thoroughly covered on here, I just can't stop thinking about it and it's affecting my conversations with pax now that I realize I'm basically working for McDonald's money not the "up to" $18-$25 an hour I have seen posted in the ads. Most riders seem surprised when I spell it out to them. They also don't realize how much of the fare uber takes. I need to stop venting about it to them but they always ask me how I like working for Uber but I'm an honest person and find it hard not to mention the pay or the fact that my life is a hellish disaster and I'm in a financial crisis because I got fooled by the revenue. Maybe it will get better in summer in this market (and worse in some others), but with these rates, the smart drivers are gonna drop out sooner or later. I have been looking at job postings for months but finally leaning towards getting a real job if it can pay $20. Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death or belongs in the "pay" forum, and vet drivers already know, but hopefully I have convinced some of you that you were making less than you thought.
Yep. Came to the exact same conclusion myself. Even with a bought and paid for used car costing .30-.35 cents/mile depending on gas prices, I was only making (net) a few dollars more than minimum wage.

No Social Security
No Unemployment (PUA was a one-and-done pandemic fluke)
No Workers Compensation
No Sick time
No Disability

Risk not worth the reward.

Game Over.
 
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