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Death Spiral: Obamacare

Discussion in 'Other' started by Maven, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. Maven

    Maven Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Driving:
    UberX
    Trump is Correct! Obamacare will fail if something is not done soon. There are major problems that need to be fixed. Even liberal Democrats agree, but they point to the fact that there have been no attempts to fix the major problems since the original ACA was passed. Maybe we can get Congress to agree and act to:
    1. Minimize uncertainty. This has driven up prices more than any other single factor. Come to an agreement fast and lock it in for a long time, if not permanently. Revisiting every year maximizes uncertainty.
    2. Accept the fact that even a majority of conservative Republicans, let alone the public as a whole, want to save most of the significant features of Obamacare, but they still hate the name, "Obamacare". So get rid of it.
    3. It's obvious by now that Republican cannot do everything by themselves. Required fixes will require bi-partisan support. Bite the bullet and deal with it.
    4. Revisit the many fixes that groups of Democrats and Republicans have agreed to in the past. Yes, they really did agree, but never brought anything except repeal to a vote.
    5. Dump the idea of a massive tax cut for the rich that has been driving recent "Repeal and Replace" efforts. This will provide the money needed to pay for the required fixes.
    6. Do not work in secret. Build public support by holding open hearing so the public understands the costs and benefits of each proposal.
    7. Find ways not to kick millions off healthcare by making it prohibitively expensive.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  2. Maven

    Maven Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Driving:
    UberX
    DEATH SPIRAL!

    Coming, not coming, or already here?
    Caused by flaws in the original law by failure to make any fixes and uncertainty caused by failure of Congress to enact anything?
    Democrats fault, Republicans fault, or who cares with the health care of millions of Americans is dependent on what is or isn't done?
    • MSNBC, July 15, For Facts Sake
    • ZeroHenge, July 10th, Aetna pulling out
    • Sacremento Bee, July 10th, Insurers may be having best year yet
    A significant few are worse off under "Obamacare," because health premiums have shot up more than expected in the individual market. Meanwhile, uncertainty around repealing the law and threats to cut funding could create a "death spiral."
     
  3. 20yearsdriving

    20yearsdriving Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SoCal
    Every one feels entitled to health care yet don't want to pay or pay as little as possible or even nothing at all. Basically

    It's very simple health care needs to be mandated OR not Guaranteed
    That's your solution
     
  4. Veal66

    Veal66 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Boston
    Driving:
    UberX
    I was telling my brother back in 2009 when the Democrats made Obamacare the law, that it was just a means to F*** the system up enough to where eventually the only option left to "save" healthcare will be single-payer. Obamacare created some massive new entitlements (subsidized premiums for low income people, can't take away coverage due to pre-existing conditions, kid coverage up to age 26 on parent's plans, backdoor $$ to insurance companies to prop up their losses). Politicians don't have the guts to take away entitlements, once they are in place.

    We will have single-payer healthcare for All in the U.S. in the next 15 years. Mark my words.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
    20yearsdriving likes this.
  5. Maven

    Maven Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Driving:
    UberX
    Perhaps the following can get enacted by a majority of the Congress:

    Obamacare Repeal and Replace:
    Be it Resolved: Everything associated with the 2009 Affordable Care Act, also known as ACA or Obamacare, will immediately and hereafter be repealed and replaced with identical provisions that will now be referred to as the 2017 Affordable Health Care Act, and may referred to as the ACHA or Trumpcare, but never Obamacare.
    Obamacare will be gone, making those that hate it happy.
    Republican Representatives and Senators will have kept 8 years of promises to constituents.
    Trumpcare will still protect millions of Americans, the same as today, that should make libs & Dems happy.
    Trump will get to have his name on something shiny and new, that has always made him happy.

    It's a win - win - win for everybody! Whoever want to can claim a major legislative victory! :D
    Then we can finally get to fixing the many problems that there is general acceptance need fixing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017

  6. emdeplam

    emdeplam Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Pico R
    Deal with the real issue

    We pay 3X per person for care versus best of developed world
    We get 10% lower life expectancy versus that same group

    Neither side has a plan. They both just want to take the big pot of money and make sure their interests get it. No one focuses on outcomes.

    And the comparison holds even if you look at non first gen Americans or other cuts. Our system sucks and is corrupt.
     
    20yearsdriving and grams777 like this.
  7. 20yearsdriving

    20yearsdriving Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SoCal
    He said he alone would do it day one.

    You are pretty much rewarding a bull****ter
     
  8. Maven

    Maven Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Driving:
    UberX
    Obviously, day-1 is long since past. Trump has proven willing to abandon any campaign promise if it means chalking up a win. Let him.

    Washington DC is filled will massive egos and a desperate need to be reelected. Anybody behind the scenes will tell you how much more can be accomplished if you are willing to share/give the credit with/to somebody else.

    I do not care about who gets credit. I do not want 23 million Americans to lose health insurance. I want to see the desperately needed fixes made to healthcare laws, that have languished for 8 years because of hyper-partisanship and petty politics.
     
  9. 20yearsdriving

    20yearsdriving Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SoCal
    Action or inaction from voters allowed this to happen

    I think we need to live the consequences

    C'mon Maven we don't want to normalize B.S.
    what's next ?? We need to be responsible for our actions.

    This is true ^^^^

    Im paying almot 8K per year in health insurance for my wife & I ( we don't use it )
    Till last year I did it out of social responsibility

    I'm really considering just putting it in savings . I think i may take that gamble.
    The US dollar is strong against the Mexican Peso there is pretty good health care if you got $$
     
  10. Maven

    Maven Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Driving:
    UberX
    People were justifiably angry with both political parties. Along comes Trump, speaking to that anger, but with no real experience, plan to fix anything, or intention of keeping his campaign promises. So he co-opts the plans of the Republican party without understand them.
    We already are. How much more pain should be visited on the American people before you feel they are sufficiently punished?
    It's already happened. Over 30% of the public still supports Trump. The number jumps to over 50% of those who voted for Trump.
    I believe in personal responsibility, but not as an absolute. Should someone seriously injured in an accident because he was texting while driving be left to die? What is the appropriate punishment for voting for the wrong person and how can you be sure that Hilary would have been any better?
    If you believe that "Our system sucks and is corrupt" then what are you personally doing to improve it? Write your congressman expressing your position? Volunteer to campaign for candidates that you believe in? Donate time or money to community organizations doing good works?
    Massive premium increases for a significant number of Americans is one of the biggest flaws in Obamacare. I think the answer is to fix those problems, not throw out the good parts with the bad, so millions of Americans not as well off as you do not lose all health insurance.. What's your answer?
     
  11. 20yearsdriving

    20yearsdriving Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SoCal
    Premium increases are not solely due to "Obama care "

    1 we have a aging population
    2 aging population wants no expense spared to live a few more months
    3 pharma , doctors , educators , health insurers etc all want to be extreamly profitable
    4 we have a new generation that wants everything free
    5 we mandate hospitals not to refuse emergency medical care to scoundrels
    6 government is corrupt and in bed with all above

    My brother in law copay for a asthma inhailer is 45.00
    Same branded inhailer is 16.00 over the counter in Mexico

    Maven I personally pay my share out of pure honor
    Half of my income is in cash I was told I was a idiot for declaring most of it
    Trump just justified my future TAX doctrine.

    P.S. I have contributed to the social agreement because I have been blessed with the opportunity to advance by using what others prior to us built

    But in no way I'm complacent that the social net will be there for me
    I've prepared since youth for the future , lots of sacrifices & hard work
    The Old School American Way
     
    emdeplam likes this.
  12. Maven

    Maven Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Driving:
    UberX
    • I agree with your reasoning for Premium increases.
    • The fact that identical medical treatment, medication, devices, etc. are a fraction of the cost over either the north or south border is a perfect example of something that could easily be changed to benefit most Americans, if not for the corporate lobbyists.
    • I applaud the fact that you pay your fair share, but I question the fact that you will let the actions of Trump change the honorable ways that you have always believed in.
    • Few realists that have considered the math believe that the social safety net can survive the current demographic trends.
    • Other than paying taxes, how do you plan to fight to maintain the legacy of "what others prior to us built"?
     
  13. 20yearsdriving

    20yearsdriving Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SoCal
    I think it's the ultimate dilemma
    The fact that it's now ilmplied its smart to "work " the "system " makes you wonder ?
     

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