California's AB-5 BILL (Gig Economy vs. Employees)

Kurt Halfyard

Well-Known Member
Author
Moderator
Seems to be a hot button in the US Federal election, even though it is a State Law.
California often sets the legislation aspirations for the rest of the Country (and yes, Canada too) - eg. vehicle emissions, cap-and-trade, etc.


AB5 is the bill that is going to reckon with the fallacy of calling Ride-Hail and Delivery workers Independant Contrators and then taking away all the 'independant' tools of that relationship in what essentially makes the Algorithm a Boss, and the Silicon Tech Firm the employer.

Is "You can quite any time." the only basis of being an IC going forward.

I'm surprised that the far more strict Canadian Labour Laws have put up with this since the 'Gig Economy' became a thing.

Discuss.
 

phreeradical

Well-Known Member
Seems to be a hot button in the US Federal election, even though it is a State Law.
California often sets the legislation aspirations for the rest of the Country (and yes, Canada too) - eg. vehicle emissions, cap-and-trade, etc.


AB5 is the bill that is going to reckon with the fallacy of calling Ride-Hail and Delivery workers Independant Contrators and then taking away all the 'independant' tools of that relationship in what essentially makes the Algorithm a Boss, and the Silicon Tech Firm the employer.

Is "You can quite any time." the only basis of being an IC going forward.

I'm surprised that the far more strict Canadian Labour Laws have put up with this since the 'Gig Economy' became a thing.

Discuss.
Governments love the “gig”
Gives “jobs” to The unemployable
Takes the pressure off transit funding
Gets everyone to work on time
Injects money into the economy
Increases tax revenue
Identifies tax cheaters
Makes the oil companies happy
Makes insurance companies happy
Funds municipal coffers
 

Karl Marx

Well-Known Member
Seems to be a hot button in the US Federal election, even though it is a State Law.
California often sets the legislation aspirations for the rest of the Country (and yes, Canada too) - eg. vehicle emissions, cap-and-trade, etc.


AB5 is the bill that is going to reckon with the fallacy of calling Ride-Hail and Delivery workers Independant Contrators and then taking away all the 'independant' tools of that relationship in what essentially makes the Algorithm a Boss, and the Silicon Tech Firm the employer.

Is "You can quite any time." the only basis of being an IC going forward.

I'm surprised that the far more strict Canadian Labour Laws have put up with this since the 'Gig Economy' became a thing.

Discuss.
The companies will fight this tooth and nail. Their usury profits and valuation are at stake. To be honest I am surprised how long this has taken for drivers to finally wake up. I remember the mornings when the dispatcher would phone the house when I was driving cab and my mother would knock on my bedroom door and say, "People want to go to the airport. Get your lazy ass out of bed and into the cab." She would make me coffee and toast and kick me out for the rest of the day. I still can't forget the day she first used her Chargex Card at the delicatessen, I remember her standing there taking it out of her purse and looking at me with the card in her hand. She cried when we came out of the shop and I asked her why and she said she use to have a ration card during the war but there was never anything in the shops. The whole notion of consumer credit was something she still couldn't understand. That same year my dad bought a new Chrysler and I was with him when we picked it up and all he did was sign a few papers. I remember he had a big wad of bills but he never used them. We drove home and he gave the bills back to my mother. Our family had truly joined the middle class. That was the era when we invented and made things.
 

peritosh

Active Member
@Reuters: California wants gig-economy firms like Uber to give workers paid vacation and sick time. But workers in other industries besides tech - from real estate to hair salons - could use the same protections https://reut.rs/328SrLK via @Breakingviews

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@Reuters: California wants gig-economy firms like Uber to give workers paid vacation and sick time. But workers in other industries besides tech - from real estate to hair salons - could use the same protections https://reut.rs/328SrLK via @Breakingviews

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@business: Uber and Lyft are putting $60 million behind a ballot measure that would ensure they don’t have reclassify their drivers as employees in California


 
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Karl Marx

Well-Known Member
They sure do Karl!!
AB5 means death to ride sharing
Wouldn't be a bad thing. Less congestion for me when I want to drive myself to the casino, shopping mall and the variety store to buy lotto tickets. Life could be so much better without rideshare, I don't imagine you wouldn't want to make my life even more comfortable. After a life of comfortable middle class toil and suffering I think I deserve even more convenience not less.
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The end of rideshare isn't such a bad thing.
69236474_2597969890226078_3212704952669437952_n.jpg
 
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MUGATS

Well-Known Member
I'd like to stay an IC. Thank you very much.

If I wanted an hourly guaranteed wage job, I'll go find one.
There are some very key advantages to the flexibility of being an IC.

Let’s say you have school age children, the spouse works till 5pm. You can completely avoid after school childcare costs if you’re there to pick them up at 3-3:30 when they finish school.

This can save you a few hundred bucks a month.

Appointments? No problem
Kids are sick? No problem, you stay home during the day and work at night.
School Snow Days? No problem

Flexibility has a lot of advantages a 9-5 gig doesn’t, so it’s not exactly black/white.

What Uber needs to do is offer some basic options for low cost benefits and savings. They could negotiate group rates for drivers and allow opt in.

Perhaps a RRSP matching program where you could put 3% of daily earnings into a savings account and they’d match at the end of the year for 1% or something like that. Not great but it’s something.

It’s not like being ICs precludes them from doing stuff like this....
 

Uberchampion

Well-Known Member
There are some very key advantages to the flexibility of being an IC.

Let’s say you have school age children, the spouse works till 5pm. You can completely avoid after school childcare costs if you’re there to pick them up at 3-3:30 when they finish school.

This can save you a few hundred bucks a month.

Appointments? No problem
Kids are sick? No problem, you stay home during the day and work at night.
School Snow Days? No problem

Flexibility has a lot of advantages a 9-5 gig doesn’t, so it’s not exactly black/white.

What Uber needs to do is offer some basic options for low cost benefits and savings. They could negotiate group rates for drivers and allow opt in.

Perhaps a RRSP matching program where you could put 3% of daily earnings into a savings account and they’d match at the end of the year for 1% or something like that. Not great but it’s something.

It’s not like being ICs precludes them from doing stuff like this....
I agree however the one thing that's keeping Uber from doing it is a key driver of the company. You see....

Uber is ISIS. Its funny but not in a haha way.

For those of you who watch Mr Robot, do you see how similar Uber and E Corp are?
 

dmoney155

Well-Known Member
There are some very key advantages to the flexibility of being an IC.

Let’s say you have school age children, the spouse works till 5pm. You can completely avoid after school childcare costs if you’re there to pick them up at 3-3:30 when they finish school.

This can save you a few hundred bucks a month.

Appointments? No problem
Kids are sick? No problem, you stay home during the day and work at night.
School Snow Days? No problem

Flexibility has a lot of advantages a 9-5 gig doesn’t, so it’s not exactly black/white.

What Uber needs to do is offer some basic options for low cost benefits and savings. They could negotiate group rates for drivers and allow opt in.

Perhaps a RRSP matching program where you could put 3% of daily earnings into a savings account and they’d match at the end of the year for 1% or something like that. Not great but it’s something.

It’s not like being ICs precludes them from doing stuff like this....
Yep, I do it cuz of the flexibility. Steady 9-5 or any other bulk shift won't work for me. I do uber in 3-5 hrs periods, and I start at home and end at my destination. Having spot to be in to do work would make this difficult.
Although could maybe take on part time on weekend, but then lately so many weekends im out of town... so don't think any employer would put up with that... this is where uber is great... you just do it when you have those extra free hours to do it.
 

donny donowitz

Well-Known Member
.
*please do not post entire articles.
 
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VanGuy

Well-Known Member
The only real reason to push for this is because U/L and all the gig companies they inspired have been ripping off drivers for far too long. Probably the biggest thing anyone on both sides can agree on. I know, you can call me Captain Obvious now.

So in my mind a better solution would be a new class of employee, the gig employee, not an IC when core to business just like the courts decided down there. Take a look at current labour law protections, and find a way to make similar products for the gig employee. It would be difficult, and sure, many politicians are far more interested in reelection than doing the hard work of writing laws, but to me this is a better solution.

  • Leave the flexibility, although from what I've read this is a nonissue that the companies are banging the drum on because being an employee doesn't have to mean no flexibility.
  • Benefits such as Workers Comp and Canada Pension. If each fare went up by the couple pennies required to fund this, the rider would probably never notice the difference. It only adds up for employers when they pay the whole shot every month. A 5-30 minute ride would add very little.
  • The big one, fair wages. U/L need to raise fares out of the basement and charge a fair price so they can pay a fair wage. I'm very happy that in BC the floor is the same as the Taxi floor.
  • I'm sure there's more but really I think with some work a new class of come and go employee doing what drivers do could be implemented.
To me this makes more sense, but I'm half a bottle in already so I could be talking out my ass. :smiles:
 

bandit13

Well-Known Member


Almost a Done Deal!



Industry officials have estimated that on-demand companies like Uber and the delivery service DoorDash see their costs rise 20 to 30 percent when they rely on employees rather than contractors, and Uber and Lyft have said in statements to prospective investors that being forced to make drivers employees could significantly affect their financial outlook. Since the prospect of a deal started to fade in late July, the stock prices of both Uber and Lyft have declined about 30 percent.

Ride-hailing companies contend that A.B. 5 would force them to set rigid schedules, depriving drivers of flexibility, and raise fares to cover the cost of employment benefits. The companies say that about 90 percent of their drivers nationwide do not work a full-time schedule.


 

Gone_in_60_seconds

Well-Known Member


Almost a Done Deal!



I...... Since the prospect of a deal started to fade in late July, the stock prices of both Uber and Lyft have declined about 30 percent.

......


Perfect share buying opportunity to get the stock cheap.
 

dmoney155

Well-Known Member
.....

Industry officials have estimated that on-demand companies like Uber and the delivery service DoorDash see their costs rise 20 to 30 percent when they rely on employees rather than contractors,....
And the so called contractors will be out pan handling once Uber and DoorDash will be forced to slash 70 to 80% of workforce, while the remaining 20 to 30 percent that will be hired as employees will need to work 3 times as hard as they do now. People are so dumb.
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If I wanted to work 3-4 times harder stable shifts I would work for Amazon at one of their warehouses.
 
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