ATO are watching

haldriver

Well-Known Member
ATO TAX AUDIT.jpg


What more is there to say except how much are you going claim as a deduction on your $50 grand AUDI, BMW, Jeep?
 

Dog

Well-Known Member
So what happens if Uber pay money into a young relatives bank account? One that doesn't work and your Uber earnings arent over 18,000. Interesting loopholes :smiles:
 

Larrikin

Active Member
I don't see a problem - we all know GST has to be paid and earnings are taxable, there are deductions available, just a matter of book keeping and an accountant who is up to date. I think some students who may not have work visas may find themselves with a Please Explain letter.
 

Larrikin

Active Member
There are some interesting angles on the question of taxation and Uber drivers - I hasten to add I'm not an accountant, far from it, however whatever way anyone looks at it, GST must be paid on the service provided and everyone is liable for tax on what they earn, by whatever means - prostitution may be illegal in some states, but that's not the ATO's concern, the girls and boys must pay tax on declared earnings.

I can see the question of responsibility for GST payment would be easily answered, if rideshare drivers received payment direct from passengers, but of course we don't, the contract is with the rideshare company - in our case, in Western Australia, either Uber or Shofer. Shofer take nothing from the fare, it's all paid to the driver, but as we all know, Uber take anywhere from 20% to 25% from the passenger's fare, which is paid under a pre-arranged credit agreement between Uber and the passenger. Driver's have no access to passenger banking, or personal details, despite the protestations of Uber, drivers provide the service to Uber's customers. If they were our customers, we would be dealing directly with them in terms of payment etc, we absolutely do not.

Yes, we all know this, but for some reason, governments find it too difficult to pursue Uber for any taxation liabilities, they immediately shift the emphasis onto the drivers, as it's easier, morality or questions of legality and responsibility play no part in this decision, it's simply a matter of 'somebody has to pay the tax, the drivers are easy game, we'll get it from them.' Big corporations are historically notoriously difficult to get taxes out of - look at the so-called Big Australian, they went off-shore to ensure they evaded their taxation responsibilities and everyone knows Apple and Google and in this case, Uber, have no intention of paying tax to the Australian government.

We don't have a federal government that has the balls, or inclination to take on, or order the ATO to take on, companies such as Uber, indeed it could be argued, a company such as Uber fits the conservative agenda, of driving down wages and isolating workers from organisations such as unions. Labor isn't really much different. However, we do have a very interesting Senate situation unfolding. It's highly likely the Senate will control the new government - well, probably for about 12 - 18 months before Turnbull has to call an election. Many of these senator-elects have come to power on platforms of representing ordinary people - us.

In reality, once we know exactly who is in the Senate, we should be writing to them, seeking appointments to explain and get support for our predicament. Food for thought.
 

whocareaboutPAX

Well-Known Member
you can go ahead and write to them, don't expect anything though. I notice you target conservatives and even had a dig at Labour.

I wonder if you considered that one of the most common riders is a socialist nutter who believes you deserve low wages as long as they receive a service very cheap (they don't agree with Uber and its tax avoidance but they sure as well don't care about you driving your car for $10 an hour). Don't believe me? Look at busy areas from Fremantle to Hamilton Hill, inner city, a lot of non-conservative western suburbs i.e Scarborough, uni students etc - very much left wing appeasers these days.

Nobody is going to look after you in politics. Give Xenephon and Hanson a go, but don't think youll get far as they are more concerned about legitimate jobs
 

Dog

Well-Known Member
The interesting point I make is that
1) Uber is highly unlikely to be sharing driver info WITH ATO because A) They don't have to. B) It's a privacy issue C) It would possibly be bad for Drivers.

On that note, if the ATO were to check a person's bank account then they would see no income from Uber, they can't really do much.

Seeing as your friend or family isn't earning an income and lodging tax returns, they won't have any issues :smiles: they earn under $18,000 and all you have to do is hold $1800 in their account for gst purposes in future.
 

Loz

Member
The interesting point I make is that
1) Uber is highly unlikely to be sharing driver info WITH ATO because A) They don't have to. B) It's a privacy issue C) It would possibly be bad for Drivers.

On that note, if the ATO were to check a person's bank account then they would see no income from Uber, they can't really do much.

Seeing as your friend or family isn't earning an income and lodging tax returns, they won't have any issues :smiles: they earn under $18,000 and all you have to do is hold $1800 in their account for gst purposes in future.
The ATO have access to both my bank accounts and when swans deposit my eftpos money into my account it comes up as deposit from swan taxis so the ATO know exactly what I am getting as most customers use eftpos these days.. surely Uber pays into the drivers bank so it will show up as a regular payment..
 

Dog

Well-Known Member
The ATO have access to both my bank accounts and when swans deposit my eftpos money into my account it comes up as deposit from swan taxis so the ATO know exactly what I am getting as most customers use eftpos these days.. surely Uber pays into the drivers bank so it will show up as a regular payment..
Regardless of that. If you have a 15 year old friend who isn't working or won't be working for a while, you can earn $18000 a year and pay no tax and just have it paid into their account, because they don't Lodge tax returns, ATO have no way to check their bank accounts or even know. If in future they audit the person and want gst, well that's where keeping $1800 in there a year comes in
 

Grand

Well-Known Member
Regardless of that. If you have a 15 year old friend who isn't working or won't be working for a while, you can earn $18000 a year and pay no tax and just have it paid into their account, because they don't Lodge tax returns, ATO have no way to check their bank accounts or even know. If in future they audit the person and want gst, well that's where keeping $1800 in there a year comes in
The ATO will see the bank deposits from Uber and demand their GST - irrespective of who owns the account or how much they earn. So the minor will still need an ABN and pay GST etc.
I am guessing you are already using a child's account. Please keep us informed when ATO comes visiting.:biggrin:
 

Dog

Well-Known Member
I'm merely pointing out how easy it can be, sadly for me, I have two older fifo working siblings so it wouldn't work for me, I had to be legitimate.

Another easy simple way of avoiding paying tax.. You have a friend overseas etc? Well Uber are a international company that can pay into any country.. Your pay goes straight to them, no trace whatsoever for the ATO. Your friend or family member (obviously if they don't have Aus bank accounts) or friend then just travels to Australia and gives you the money. Simple ways like this
 

UberPig

Well-Known Member
All sounds a bit dodgy to me...
Don't be like Uber... pay your tax..
Not an issue for me because I'm under the 18k
But I did give them 20+k last year for DVR
The only way to make this work is a more reasonable playdate
But that looks unlikely...
So Syonara to Uber.....
Bring on your synklyft... will be too late for me but maybe for others???
 

Dog

Well-Known Member
All sounds a bit dodgy to me...
Don't be like Uber... pay your tax..
Not an issue for me because I'm under the 18k
But I did give them 20+k last year for DVR
The only way to make this work is a more reasonable playdate
But that looks unlikely...
So Syonara to Uber.....
Bring on your synklyft... will be too late for me but maybe for others???
Haha don't worry I have and always do pay my fair tax, I think I've paid about $220,000 in my six years of working. I didn't keep aside tax from Uber but I declared the income and it sure reduced my return from its normal amount to like $1800
 

UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
So what happens if Uber pay money into a young relatives bank account? One that doesn't work and your Uber earnings arent over 18,000. Interesting loopholes :smiles:
If by "young" you mean doesn't even have a driver's licence yet, they're not going to believe that it's genuinely their income. Tax rates for income that isn't "excepted income" for minors (< 18 y.o.) are higher than for adults, and attract a rate of 47% for such income over $1,307/year.
 

Dog

Well-Known Member
If by "young" you mean doesn't even have a driver's licence yet, they're not going to believe that it's genuinely their income. Tax rates for income that isn't "excepted income" for minors (< 18 y.o.) are higher than for adults, and attract a rate of 47% for such income over $1,307/year.
I honestly don't know what world you're living in.
 

Larrikin

Active Member
you can go ahead and write to them, don't expect anything though. I notice you target conservatives and even had a dig at Labour.

I wonder if you considered that one of the most common riders is a socialist nutter who believes you deserve low wages as long as they receive a service very cheap (they don't agree with Uber and its tax avoidance but they sure as well don't care about you driving your car for $10 an hour). Don't believe me? Look at busy areas from Fremantle to Hamilton Hill, inner city, a lot of non-conservative western suburbs i.e Scarborough, uni students etc - very much left wing appeasers these days.

Nobody is going to look after you in politics. Give Xenephon and Hanson a go, but don't think youll get far as they are more concerned about legitimate jobs
Strewth! We seem to be carrying very different passengers - I'd say 99.9% agree that a fare hike of 15% would be fine, they wouldn't notice it, almost all dislike the surge, all dislike taxis, intensely and most passengers are either working people - business, fifo, or sometimes uni students, often also working. I have some fantastic discussions with passengers over a wide range of topics and have to say, our world's in good hands with these people, they're inevitably hard workers, ambitious and very thoughtful about social and political issues. I don't work Fremantle, although I picked up two young guys going to a vehicle auction this morning, honest enough to pass over a wallet a previous passenger had left on the back seat, I find the Western suburbs slim pickings anytime night or day, so I never usually go past UWA. My perception of most passengers is they're well grounded, well educated, focused and thoughtful and they cover a wide political spectrum.

In terms of targeting conservative politicians, they're in power and the agenda is not worker friendly - sure, under the guise of 'make it great for the employers and jobs will be created' they act concerned, but their policy is keeping wages down, lowering them if possible, while allowing higher returns for business. Whether it's good or bad depends on which side of the fence you find yourself.

What do you mean by 'legitimate jobs?' If you're inferring what we do is not legitimate, certainly that may have been the case three weeks ago, but not any longer. it strikes me that you may be an aggrieved taxi driver and possibly a conservative voter - your mates certainly looked after you! Cheers.
 

whocareaboutPAX

Well-Known Member
Strewth! We seem to be carrying very different passengers - I'd say 99.9% agree that a fare hike of 15% would be fine, they wouldn't notice it, almost all dislike the surge, all dislike taxis, intensely and most passengers are either working people - business, fifo, or sometimes uni students, often also working. I have some fantastic discussions with passengers over a wide range of topics and have to say, our world's in good hands with these people, they're inevitably hard workers, ambitious and very thoughtful about social and political issues. I don't work Fremantle, although I picked up two young guys going to a vehicle auction this morning, honest enough to pass over a wallet a previous passenger had left on the back seat, I find the Western suburbs slim pickings anytime night or day, so I never usually go past UWA. My perception of most passengers is they're well grounded, well educated, focused and thoughtful and they cover a wide political spectrum.

In terms of targeting conservative politicians, they're in power and the agenda is not worker friendly - sure, under the guise of 'make it great for the employers and jobs will be created' they act concerned, but their policy is keeping wages down, lowering them if possible, while allowing higher returns for business. Whether it's good or bad depends on which side of the fence you find yourself.

What do you mean by 'legitimate jobs?' If you're inferring what we do is not legitimate, certainly that may have been the case three weeks ago, but not any longer. it strikes me that you may be an aggrieved taxi driver and possibly a conservative voter - your mates certainly looked after you! Cheers.
I suppose we will agree to disagree. I live in Burns Beach which is a safe Liberal seat and all the FIFO guys here are Liberal voters / conservatives. But when I work on the Friday / Saturday nights or even after work on for an hour or two, I'd much rather take the underclass from a region like Belmont / Noranda than I would the middle aged / young who live in and around Fremantle or areas like Scarborough (unless theyre backpackers/travellers - plenty in Scabs). They are known areas to be more left-wing aligned as per this years vote and the 2013 particularly the senate bi-election. I don't work the same hours as you so that probably is why we get a different demographic.

You are right nobody likes the surge. Nobody likes taxis for many a reason. But the common self-entitledness from some of the youth (where is your water - I don't offer it but twice I drove to a fuel station and told them to buy themselves water) or commenting on how cheap it is ignorant to the fact that we get bullocks is disturbing. You'll find that the demographic worried about price in and around the city or Fremantle are typically far from a conservative and Uni students are known to be more left-wing aligned.

And I cannot agree with your "anti-worker friendly" statement about the current government. They are far from conservative (yes they are the the "conservatives" traditionally) but their agenda is anything but. They have yes - shown to want to hurt families, but nothing shows to hurting the worker and where they have tried, they have failed. There is no policy of keeping wages down and whilst yes they want businesses to increase profits that is the Regan/Thatcher view of how to expand a business and sure as hell applies to the business I work for – sometimes it works, sometimes it does not just the same as policies that force wages to rise sometimes work favourably and sometimes do not. But I completely reject that they want wages to remain down, that is pure nonsense there is no such policy. Wage growth has been stagnant for 10 years and in WA has actually slashed because we relied far to much on the mining industry.

I'm 25. I have never driven a taxi. I started driving for UBER because I was conned into the rubbish by deluded friends who where driving but made it work for me. Countless people I have sat with in my car have said that driving is largely unskilled work and they find a way to rudely justify $15 per hour.

Finally back on the topic of PAX and their ideology.
If you asked a low skilled worker in an office to work for $15 an hour and it was forced by business, you would see protests on the streets and a massive backlash by the public, and much of those people as we've seen with union protests are left-wing aligned. Why haven't the left come out and done the same about Uber and its treatment of drivers? Because they are one of the main users of uber and if fares were reasonable or if drivers where treated they would lose out.

e: I have never driven a taxi and I don't agree at all with what the Liberal party did in WA/NSW to the taxi industry nor do I agree what the ALP government (a left wing not conservative ALP government did in Canberra. Both sides are benefactors of Uber. Nobody cares about the damn driver and will not care about the damn driver or we would have activist politicans who always winge about wages up in arms.
 

Larrikin

Active Member
Fair enough, we'll just have to agree to disagree, may I quote Waylon Jennings:

I've got a couple more years on you baby that's all
I've had more chances to fly and more places to fall
That's not that I'm wiser it's just that I've spent
More time with my back to the wall.


Cheers from an old hippy chardonnay socialist.
 

Dog

Well-Known Member

UberDriverAU

Well-Known Member
Difference being this is no excepted income? That is designed to stop a parent directly paying their child a wage, not a international corporation/companies
Drivers must be 20 years of age to get an F extension, so using simple logical deduction, the ATO will say that any Uber income can't possibly be a minor's income and is therefore not excepted income, you need to cough up 47% tax on this income above $1,307.
 
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