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Are the wait fees enough?

You get the ping, you accept it. According to the ping, the pickup is 5 minutes away - "that's not bad" you think. "I can arrive, pick up my passenger, get them to their destination, and move on to the next ride!" you ponder with positivity. You do some calculations in your head: "as long as the destination is more than 5 minutes from the pickup, it should be a pretty good profit for me!" you are psyched.

You arrive at the pickup, looking for the tell-tale sign of your passenger: a lit-up cell phone screen and a craned neck. You see no one who matches that description, you start looking for anyone who could potentially be your passenger - nobody. You re-check the pin on the map - "yup, I'm practically right on top of it!" - your positivity is waning. You make sure the clock for wait fees is counting down, it is. You shift your vehicle into 'park'; now you wait.

A minute passes by, and you begin to question your ability to read a map - something you've done hundreds of time. "No, I'm in the right place". You do the calculations in your head again - the wait fee that is forthcoming isn't even worth your time. Let alone this in-between time where you assume the passenger is looking for you.

The 2nd minute passes by and you begin to wonder if they got the wrong pickup; it happens sometimes. You send a text: "I'm parked on Lake and University". You expect a response from a frantic rider trying desperately to find your vehicle - no response comes. At least soon you'll start earning that wait fee. You do your calculations again - that wait fee is only a few cents. Your profit is shrinking with every minute.

The 3rd minute passes and now you just want to know the story. Who orders a ride and doesn't show up to take it? Why are they not here? After all, they called for the ride! You didn't solicit them to take a ride. You weren't driving up to random people on the street saying "hey, you need a ride?" No, they called for a ride. And your mandate as a driver was to show up quickly so as to not waste their time. But, here it is, you are here and they are wasting your time! In the same amount of time you have currently waited, you could have completed a ride and gotten paid. But no, this selfish entitled person who will undoubtedly expect premium service for a meager price also expects you to wait for them as if your car, service, gas, maintenance and time are all worth the few dollars they will ultimately begrudgingly pay you. You feel like every person that walks by, every car that drives by, every eye that peers out of the windows of nearby buildings are trained on you: "why is that vehicle just sitting there? Why have they been there SO long?"

The 4th minute passes, and now it's a race. Will the clock strike five minutes before they try to lunge for your car door? In less than a minute, this selfish person will get their comeuppance and they will learn what it means to waste your time. You will earn your cancellation fee, and you can move on the next ride. At this point, the cancellation fee carries more profit than picking up this rude person and having that silent, seething ride - no matter how far it is. You hover your finger over the screen of your cell phone, waiting for that "Cancel Ride" button to pop up. You see a person meander out of a building, their cell phone in their hand - they're not even in a hurry. They look up, see your vehicle, and start approaching it - this is your passenger. They reach for the door handle, and you check the time left on the clock - 15 seconds. You roll your eyes and unlock the door, they trundle in. They absentmindedly slam the door as they get in, you confirm their name. You half expect them to say they're waiting for one more passenger; they don't, it's just them. You swipe the "start ride" bar and begin the trip. It's just a few blocks. Your positivity is completely gone, you spend the rest of the ride in silence. Your passenger having no idea how their actions affect your mood or profit, will go on about the rest of their day without even paying you a second thought.

Do you tell them they wasted your time? Do you save it for the rating? Does the rating do anything to improve their punctuality for future rides? Should Uber take this sort of thing more seriously?
 

Comments

Driver_Down

Active Member
I think if it were me, I would leave the doors locked for that 15 seconds, roll the window down just enough for them to hear me say, "waiting sucks, doesn't it?" and let them watch as I hit cancel ride at the end of that 15 seconds.

My favorite, noticing the pick up is at a high school. Roll up with my denial speech prepared.
Kid: Hey, ride for (parent's name, more than likely)?
Me: Yeah, how old are you?
Kid: I'm with my older brother.
Me: Okay, how old is he? (eyeballing a scraggly bearded young man walking toward us)
Kid: 16
Me: Sorry, no unaccompanied minors means I need someone over 18. Bye.
Have you done it tho? As badly as I’ve wanted to cancel on UBER in the last 15 seconds I can’t bring myself to do it side technically within the 5 mins they were there. I know smh sometimes when the cancel fee is more than the ride and it’s surging...I’m sure you could do it, but how many times till a pax complains to Uber
 

iheartuber

Well-Known Member
Have you done it tho? As badly as I’ve wanted to cancel on UBER in the last 15 seconds I can’t bring myself to do it side technically within the 5 mins they were there. I know smh sometimes when the cancel fee is more than the ride and it’s surging...I’m sure you could do it, but how many times till a pax complains to Uber
Let’s consider two options

#1 the pax arrives at 4:55, you do the ride, you drive less than 1 mile, you get paid about $4

#2 the pax is over 5 min, you cancel, you get the cancel fee you make about $4

You basically make the same money each time and the only difference is if you do the ride you spend 5 extra minutes and about 1 mile of wear and tear on your car.

The difference in your pay is pennies.

Even though it “feels” bad to have to drive a late, entitled pax 3 blocks, the bottom line is you basically get paid the same either way so just suck it up buttercup
 

Spike72

Active Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
So you’re made for this job. The wait time for a person is very low. There is no reason to complain. 5 minutes and they have to be there or you get paid. It’s extremely reasonable. Cab drivers get paid nothing and wait longer. Chill out
I will (somewhat) respectfully disagree. The rider initiated the ride, I didn't. They have the benefit of seeing exactly where I am in relation to them, an approximate time of arrival, the direction I am coming from, the make, model and color of the vehicle I am driving. There is no reason for them to not be toes-on-the-curb when I arrive other than to be entitled.

But, since you compared this to taxis, let me draw a scenario for you. Imagine yourself in a major metropolitan area (Chicago, L.A., New York) and instead of calling or using an app, you just put up an arm to hail a cab. Because that's what rideshare apps are - the hail. Now imagine as the cab pulls up, you stand there. Imagine standing there for 5 whole minutes as the cab driver wonders why you're not getting in his cab. There is no way any taxi driver would let you just stand there doing nothing for 5 minutes while you do..whatever.

And yes, I've seen people make cabs wait for inordinate amounts of time. The difference is cabs don't have a mechanism in place to penalize people for wasting their time. In my personal opinion, they should. Busses, planes, trains and ferries all have a similar mechanism: the vehicle leaves without you and you have a paid ticket for the ride you were supposed to be on time for. I see no reason why rideshare shouldn't carry a similar penalty.

Oh, and I'm not saying there shouldn't be some wiggle room. Two minutes is generous, five minutes is ridiculous, and anything more than that is unacceptable.

Oh, and to all those that suggest I "drive around the corner" or "lock my doors" or somehow stall for time to collect the cancellation fee? I'm sorry, that is also entitled behavior. Uber and Lyft's policies are pretty straight forward regarding our mandate. We wait five minutes. I am, however, saying that the policies stink and Uber and Lyft should consider different penalties for riders wasting our time. Up to and including suspending their accounts, or placing them at the bottom of the queue when matching riders with drivers or even tagging their pings with something like "habitually late for pickups" (maybe denoted with a symbol) so we can decline their pings.
 

Soldiering

Active Member
Let’s consider two options

#1 the pax arrives at 4:55, you do the ride, you drive less than 1 mile, you get paid about $4

#2 the pax is over 5 min, you cancel, you get the cancel fee you make about $4

You basically make the same money each time and the only difference is if you do the ride you spend 5 extra minutes and about 1 mile of wear and tear on your car.

The difference in your pay is pennies.

Even though it “feels” bad to have to drive a late, entitled pax 3 blocks, the bottom line is you basically get paid the same either way so just suck it up buttercup
Im not sure where your driving but here in PHX a short ride is 2.62 an a lyft cancel is 5 an ubers is 3.75 so no its not pennies. Are you a driver?

I wish we got paid 4 for a mile ride. You must not be a drivet
 

JohnnyWick

Active Member
You get the ping, you accept it. According to the ping, the pickup is 5 minutes away - "that's not bad" you think. "I can arrive, pick up my passenger, get them to their destination, and move on to the next ride!" you ponder with positivity. You do some calculations in your head: "as long as the destination is more than 5 minutes from the pickup, it should be a pretty good profit for me!" you are psyched.

You arrive at the pickup, looking for the tell-tale sign of your passenger: a lit-up cell phone screen and a craned neck. You see no one who matches that description, you start looking for anyone who could potentially be your passenger - nobody. You re-check the pin on the map - "yup, I'm practically right on top of it!" - your positivity is waning. You make sure the clock for wait fees is counting down, it is. You shift your vehicle into 'park'; now you wait.

A minute passes by, and you begin to question your ability to read a map - something you've done hundreds of time. "No, I'm in the right place". You do the calculations in your head again - the wait fee that is forthcoming isn't even worth your time. Let alone this in-between time where you assume the passenger is looking for you.

The 2nd minute passes by and you begin to wonder if they got the wrong pickup; it happens sometimes. You send a text: "I'm parked on Lake and University". You expect a response from a frantic rider trying desperately to find your vehicle - no response comes. At least soon you'll start earning that wait fee. You do your calculations again - that wait fee is only a few cents. Your profit is shrinking with every minute.

The 3rd minute passes and now you just want to know the story. Who orders a ride and doesn't show up to take it? Why are they not here? After all, they called for the ride! You didn't solicit them to take a ride. You weren't driving up to random people on the street saying "hey, you need a ride?" No, they called for a ride. And your mandate as a driver was to show up quickly so as to not waste their time. But, here it is, you are here and they are wasting your time! In the same amount of time you have currently waited, you could have completed a ride and gotten paid. But no, this selfish entitled person who will undoubtedly expect premium service for a meager price also expects you to wait for them as if your car, service, gas, maintenance and time are all worth the few dollars they will ultimately begrudgingly pay you. You feel like every person that walks by, every car that drives by, every eye that peers out of the windows of nearby buildings are trained on you: "why is that vehicle just sitting there? Why have they been there SO long?"

The 4th minute passes, and now it's a race. Will the clock strike five minutes before they try to lunge for your car door? In less than a minute, this selfish person will get their comeuppance and they will learn what it means to waste your time. You will earn your cancellation fee, and you can move on the next ride. At this point, the cancellation fee carries more profit than picking up this rude person and having that silent, seething ride - no matter how far it is. You hover your finger over the screen of your cell phone, waiting for that "Cancel Ride" button to pop up. You see a person meander out of a building, their cell phone in their hand - they're not even in a hurry. They look up, see your vehicle, and start approaching it - this is your passenger. They reach for the door handle, and you check the time left on the clock - 15 seconds. You roll your eyes and unlock the door, they trundle in. They absentmindedly slam the door as they get in, you confirm their name. You half expect them to say they're waiting for one more passenger; they don't, it's just them. You swipe the "start ride" bar and begin the trip. It's just a few blocks. Your positivity is completely gone, you spend the rest of the ride in silence. Your passenger having no idea how their actions affect your mood or profit, will go on about the rest of their day without even paying you a second thought.

Do you tell them they wasted your time? Do you save it for the rating? Does the rating do anything to improve their punctuality for future rides? Should Uber take this sort of thing more seriously?
Yes, compensation for the wait time is not enough.

If you were in the Uber Pro program, which is trial on select cities, and platinum level, you would see the trip duration and would save you time.
 

freddieman

Well-Known Member
Yes, compensation for the wait time is not enough.

If you were in the Uber Pro program, which is trial on select cities, and platinum level, you would see the trip duration and would save you time.
Doesn’t matter if u see trip duration cuz once cancellation is over 4%, u don’t get that feature anymore. It’s just a tease.
 

iheartuber

Well-Known Member
Im not sure where your driving but here in PHX a short ride is 2.62 an a lyft cancel is 5 an ubers is 3.75 so no its not pennies. Are you a driver?

I wish we got paid 4 for a mile ride. You must not be a drivet
In LA Uber recently made the min ride $4 for the OG 20%ers and $3.75 for the 25%ers

Now a shorty is the same as the cancel fee
 

Ssgcraig

Well-Known Member
5 minutes is UNreasonable. Sounds like YOU are the only one who is okay with it. The rest of us... not so much.
It's what Uber said is reasonable, therefore the pax think it's reasonable. Hiding for the last 1.5 minute is shady. Until uber lowers it to 2-3 min, that's the time frame. I think it's too much too, but I don't drive off and hide.
 

iheartuber

Well-Known Member
It's what Uber said is reasonable, therefore the pax think it's reasonable. Hiding for the last 1.5 minute is shady. Until uber lowers it to 2-3 min, that's the time frame. I think it's too much too, but I don't drive off and hide.
Again, if the difference is pennies then no need to stiff the pax even if they are paxholes

Apparently in my market the cancel fee is the same as a shorty. Maybe Uber did not roll that out to every market
 

Ssgcraig

Well-Known Member
Wait time should be the time per min plus $.50, here it's $.28. Then I think pax would be ready, toes to curb. Also, that wait time should be included in the cancel fee too.
 

Sammi Kurr

Active Member
You get the ping, you accept it. According to the ping, the pickup is 5 minutes away - "that's not bad" you think. "I can arrive, pick up my passenger, get them to their destination, and move on to the next ride!" you ponder with positivity. You do some calculations in your head: "as long as the destination is more than 5 minutes from the pickup, it should be a pretty good profit for me!" you are psyched.

You arrive at the pickup, looking for the tell-tale sign of your passenger: a lit-up cell phone screen and a craned neck. You see no one who matches that description, you start looking for anyone who could potentially be your passenger - nobody. You re-check the pin on the map - "yup, I'm practically right on top of it!" - your positivity is waning. You make sure the clock for wait fees is counting down, it is. You shift your vehicle into 'park'; now you wait.

A minute passes by, and you begin to question your ability to read a map - something you've done hundreds of time. "No, I'm in the right place". You do the calculations in your head again - the wait fee that is forthcoming isn't even worth your time. Let alone this in-between time where you assume the passenger is looking for you.

The 2nd minute passes by and you begin to wonder if they got the wrong pickup; it happens sometimes. You send a text: "I'm parked on Lake and University". You expect a response from a frantic rider trying desperately to find your vehicle - no response comes. At least soon you'll start earning that wait fee. You do your calculations again - that wait fee is only a few cents. Your profit is shrinking with every minute.

The 3rd minute passes and now you just want to know the story. Who orders a ride and doesn't show up to take it? Why are they not here? After all, they called for the ride! You didn't solicit them to take a ride. You weren't driving up to random people on the street saying "hey, you need a ride?" No, they called for a ride. And your mandate as a driver was to show up quickly so as to not waste their time. But, here it is, you are here and they are wasting your time! In the same amount of time you have currently waited, you could have completed a ride and gotten paid. But no, this selfish entitled person who will undoubtedly expect premium service for a meager price also expects you to wait for them as if your car, service, gas, maintenance and time are all worth the few dollars they will ultimately begrudgingly pay you. You feel like every person that walks by, every car that drives by, every eye that peers out of the windows of nearby buildings are trained on you: "why is that vehicle just sitting there? Why have they been there SO long?"

The 4th minute passes, and now it's a race. Will the clock strike five minutes before they try to lunge for your car door? In less than a minute, this selfish person will get their comeuppance and they will learn what it means to waste your time. You will earn your cancellation fee, and you can move on the next ride. At this point, the cancellation fee carries more profit than picking up this rude person and having that silent, seething ride - no matter how far it is. You hover your finger over the screen of your cell phone, waiting for that "Cancel Ride" button to pop up. You see a person meander out of a building, their cell phone in their hand - they're not even in a hurry. They look up, see your vehicle, and start approaching it - this is your passenger. They reach for the door handle, and you check the time left on the clock - 15 seconds. You roll your eyes and unlock the door, they trundle in. They absentmindedly slam the door as they get in, you confirm their name. You half expect them to say they're waiting for one more passenger; they don't, it's just them. You swipe the "start ride" bar and begin the trip. It's just a few blocks. Your positivity is completely gone, you spend the rest of the ride in silence. Your passenger having no idea how their actions affect your mood or profit, will go on about the rest of their day without even paying you a second thought.

Do you tell them they wasted your time? Do you save it for the rating? Does the rating do anything to improve their punctuality for future rides? Should Uber take this sort of thing more seriously?
You are reinventing the same wheel of cheese that goes with the same whine the same way we eventually did or will or have done. Great point but the solution is that that your getting to attached with your passengers. What that rider did was in total disregard for you. She doesn't care and will more than likely give you 4 stars if you were silent during the ride. UNLESS, you wax on how enthusiastic it was for you to wait.. The only defense I can give her is that if she had only five minutes from her swipe to request to you actually getting there, that's a little tight. Nonetheless, I would have left at that 15 second warning and no showed it driving round the corner..It sounds like a token victory but it's little (and not so little) no nonsense policies that will thicken your skin against further pax abuse. Then when you see that a pax is actually trying to hurry and is sincere in her approach and maybe apologizes, you won't displace any upset on her.
 

RockyJ

New Member
The wait time needs to be $.50 per minute over the alloted time set. and also the wait time at a two stop ride needs to be $.50 per minute then the rider has an incentive to get in or back. How do we get this done???

Wait time here is only $.1125/minute:frown:
 

Spike72

Active Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34
You are reinventing the same wheel of cheese that goes with the same whine the same way we eventually did or will or have done. Great point but the solution is that that your getting to attached with your passengers. What that rider did was in total disregard for you. She doesn't care and will more than likely give you 4 stars if you were silent during the ride. UNLESS, you wax on how enthusiastic it was for you to wait.. The only defense I can give her is that if she had only five minutes from her swipe to request to you actually getting there, that's a little tight. Nonetheless, I would have left at that 15 second warning and no showed it driving round the corner..It sounds like a token victory but it's little (and not so little) no nonsense policies that will thicken your skin against further pax abuse. Then when you see that a pax is actually trying to hurry and is sincere in her approach and maybe apologizes, you won't displace any upset on her.
You'll notice nowhere in the article did I say this situation happened to me. I used the pronoun 'you' throughout. This is a hypothetical incident based upon the thousands of rides I have given. As I personally see it, because rideshare costs are so low, to be profitable, it needs to be a volume business (i.e. finish one ride, get the next one, repeat). And the only thing slowing down that process is riders who both expect to wait for us to arrive *and* make us wait for them. It is wholly inefficient given the technology at play. This article is just meant to highlight that. I'm sorry that's not how you interpreted it.
 

Sammi Kurr

Active Member
You'll notice nowhere in the article did I say this situation happened to me. I used the pronoun 'you' throughout. This is a hypothetical incident based upon the thousands of rides I have given. As I personally see it, because rideshare costs are so low, to be profitable, it needs to be a volume business (i.e. finish one ride, get the next one, repeat). And the only thing slowing down that process is riders who both expect to wait for us to arrive *and* make us wait for them. It is wholly inefficient given the technology at play. This article is just meant to highlight that. I'm sorry that's not how you interpreted it.
Got it, sorry I misread it... It is a frustrating point though. U or L won't ever do anything about it. They are making their platform fees regardless. I feel they are just playing the averages on that a rider will be new and thus have a "fresh" promise of big money and use their work ethic to make them money with no regard for their actual costs. This goes on until such a driver quits and then they get new drivers with the same old promises and the cycle repeats. Meanwhile, new drivers don't realize soon enough that U and L are simply converting the drivers vehicle's equity into cash and paying them that (reimbursement) as their pay (profit). It's called conversion of assets..
 

Uber_Dubler

Active Member
So you’re made for this job. The wait time for a person is very low. There is no reason to complain. 5 minutes and they have to be there or you get paid. It’s extremely reasonable. Cab drivers get paid nothing and wait longer. Chill out
Wow, I didn't realize Uber employees posted on these boards. I guess you work for Uber CS, maybe?

No, its not 3.75 (Dalls area rate) for 5 minutes of waiting. Its 10 minutes of driving around waiting for a ping, 5 minutes to drive to the destination and THEN 5 minutes before being eligible for compensation. So $3.85 for 20 minutes of your time. Knock off a quarter or so for gas. So for my 20 minutes of time, I get $3.50 before taxes and Uber gets $1.25.
 

MemphisDave

Member
My greatest annoyance related to this topic is when (after working any given night numerous hours in a market oversaturated with drivers) you finally get that increasingly rare surge in your vicinity.
You are refreshed with enthusiasm to then actually get a ping at (say, 2.5x or better) that's only a few mins away. Sweet! Your optimism soars as you arrive at the pickup location promptly.
No pax in sight, so you (or, at least I, call) right away. No answer. You text and call again because you don't want to lose this trip at that surge rate. Time ticks by, and before you know it, the pax is a no-show, you cancel and the surge is but a memory. After all that, all you're left with is the menial cancellation fee.
Admittedly, I've had times where the rate increased during that time span...but that's rare. Usually, the ants see a 1.2x and speed toward it like the surge police, so the surges end up being pretty short-lived and don't have time to build.
I've been doing this 3-1/2 years and the decrease in surge has REALLY been a killer!
 
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