Appeals court sides with California on order to make Uber and Lyft drivers employees

observer

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Federal standard requires full mileage reimbursement as well. Not on top of min wage but at least min wage after all deductible expenses.


And Uber has to be profitable for them to write it off right?
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Uber can charge the customer whatever they want under ab5.

The driver just has to get pay+ mileage + benifits+ overtime.
Uber just has to send less money to their overseas tax havens.
 

NicFit

Well-Known Member
Uber will never shut down in California. They may shut down for a week or two but they'll be back ASAP.

No, they did not. They MISSCLASSIFIED those drivers as independent contractors instead of employees.

Just like Uber. No difference.

No, the laws NEVER changed, they were clarified. Big difference. Drivers have been employees all along.

Uber doesn't get to decide wether a driver is an employee or IC, matter of fact, neither does the driver.

The worker CANNOT sign away their employee rights.

If that were the case all employers would claim workers were independent contractors.
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BTW, the state should do the exact same thing to Dara and other top management.

Walk them out of their offices in handcuffs.

See how long this "Drivers are independent contractors" bullshit lasts.
Uber has followed the law regarding independent contractors since it had started. It was allowed and there was no law against it. The state knew and if it was illegal then they would of shut Uber down. Then AB5 was finally done so Uber and the rest of anyone in California with independent contractors have to change to follow the new law that is now in place. There was no law on whether or not anyone could be an employee or an independent contractor. Because Uber deliver drivers were independent contractors then until AB5 was created they were following the law. The trucking company you mention hired those people, told them they were employees and then came tax time they decided to give them a 1099. You can’t say your employee then hide the change because it will save money, they lied and said the truckers were employees, Uber never lied or misdirected, they said from the start you are an independent contractor, we are not offering you employee status. After that then they made a law and now Uber has to follow it if Prop 22 fails, or they will get shut down. Open declarations and lying are two different things. The misclassification was only made into law with AB5 and now they are in court over it. If the judge determines that they are misclassified they will give Uber the chance to fix it because they never mislead that they were suppose to be employees. If you can’t see the difference then I don’t know what to tell you

Trucking company said driver was employees and gave 1099 - illegal

Uber said driver was independent contractor - legal until AB5 determined it was misclassified and now will be illegal to continue unless Prop 22 is passed making exemption

Now if the trucking company had said during the hiring that the drivers were to be independent contractors from the start then they’d be doing the same thing as Uber right now without the fraud charges. They would of had been given the opportunity to be able to comply with AB5 or get shut down, but this isn’t what the trucking company did. They pulled a fast one, saying your an employee and then realized they could save money by giving them 1099’s. They were never suppose to be independent contractors. They were treated like employees ie work schedules, bosses and all those other wage slave crap but then given 1099s
 
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observer

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Uber has followed the law regarding independent contractors since it had started. It was allowed and there was no law against it. The state knew and if it was illegal then they would of shut Uber down. Then AB5 was finally done so Uber and the rest of anyone in California with independent contractors have to change to follow the new law that is now in place. There was no law on whether or not anyone could be an employee or an independent contractor. Because Uber deliver drivers were independent contractors then until AB5 was created they were following the law. The trucking company you mention hired those people, told them they were employees and then came tax time they decided to give them a 1099. You can’t say your employee then hide the change because it will save money, they lied and said the truckers were employees, Uber never lied or misdirected, they said from the start you are an independent contractor, we are not offering you employee status. After that then they made a law and now Uber has to follow it if Prop 22 fails, or they will get shut down. Open declarations and lying are two different things. The misclassification was only made into law with AB5 and now they are in court over it. If the judge determines that they are misclassified they will give Uber the chance to fix it because they never mislead that they were suppose to be employees. If you can’t see the difference then I don’t know what to tell you

Trucking company said driver was employees and gave 1099 - illegal

Uber said driver was independent contractor - legal until AB5 determined it was misclassified and now will be illegal to continue unless Prop 22 is passed making exemption

Now if the trucking company had said during the hiring that the drivers were to be independent contractors from the start then they’d be doing the same thing as Uber right now without the fraud charges. They would of had been given the opportunity to be able to comply with AB5 or get shut down, but this isn’t what the trucking company did. They pulled a fast one, saying your an employee and then realized they could save money by giving them 1099’s. They were never suppose to be independent contractors. They were treated like employees ie work schedules, bosses and all those other wage slave crap but then given 1099s
Let me give you a simple one sentence reply.

Uber doesn't get to decide to classify drivers as independent contractors.
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Drivers are cash-basis taxpayers on the RS earnings, unless they declared accrual method on their first tax return on which they filed RS income, and even then, they didn't have a clear right to receive the disputed earnings before the final court ruling under the "all events" test so they should not have recognized it. Thus, they will recognize the earnings from the judgment as taxable income in the year finally received.

*if* they for some bizarre reason did claim unpaid earnings on past years' tax returns, then nothing happens for tax purposes when they get the payout, because they already recognized the income.

Now, you owe bear some food for that answer. :ninja:

🍔🍟🍺 hope you like beer, looked for a soda to make it a combo but couldn't find any. :smiles:
 
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NicFit

Well-Known Member
Let me give you a simple one sentence reply.

Uber doesn't get to decide to classify drivers as independent contractors.
Actually Uber did decide, they made the model of how it works but then California law makers said they can’t do it that way so they put an exemption on the ballot, California law makers don’t really care, they are tired of the lawsuits from the entitled whiney people who think that Uber should be something that it isn’t and the state wants taxes off of the drivers. So that’s why they made Prop 22 so the PEOPLE can decide once and for all how Uber should work. That’s how democracy works, once the people have spoken then that will be how it works, the people will be the final say in this issue, what ever you and me thinks will be moot after the results of Prop 22, if it passes we drivers are independent contractors, if it fails we drivers are employees, end of story
 

observer

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Actually Uber did decide, they made the model of how it works but then California said they can’t do it that way so they put an exemption on the ballot, California doesn’t really care, they are tired of the lawsuits from the entitled whiney people who think that Uber should be something that it isn’t and the state wants taxes off of the drivers. So that’s why they made Prop 22 so the PEOPLE can decide once and for all how Uber should work. That’s how democracy works, once the people have spoken then that will be how it works, the people will be the final say in this issue, what ever you and me thinks will be moot after the results of Prop 22, if it passes we drivers are independent contractors, if it fails we drivers are employees, end of story
Uber does not get to decide wether drivers are independent contractors.

That's why they have lost lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit.

California is on them (took them long enough) now as is New York and Illinois. Other states will start clamping down on them soon.

It's just a matter of time before Gig companies are regulated nationwide, even if Prop 22 passes.
 

NicFit

Well-Known Member
Uber does not get to decide wether drivers are independent contractors.

That's why they have lost lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit.

California is on them (took them long enough) now as is New York and Illinois. Other states will start clamping down on them soon.

It's just a matter of time before Gig companies are regulated nationwide, even if Prop 22 passes.
This may be the case, it may have to be addressed nationally but if Prop 22 passes then that’s a huge sign that the people want it to remain independent contractors as California is one of Uber’s biggest markets. Just because some people want it to be something else but the votes say this is the way then that’s the way it will be. I don’t think it will really end with Prop 22, this is kinda like the weed laws, some people think it should be illegal still but it still hasn’t been dealt with on a federal level. It’s going to take at least 10-20 years for this entire issue to be settled once and for all
 

observer

Well-Known Member
Moderator
This may be the case, it may have to be addressed nationally but if Prop 22 passes then that’s a huge sign that the people want it to remain independent contractors as California is one of Uber’s biggest markets. Just because some people want it to be something else but the votes say this is the way then that’s the way it will be. I don’t think it will really end with Prop 22, this is kinda like the weed laws, some people think it should be illegal still but it still hasn’t been dealt with on a federal level. It’s going to take at least 10-20 years for this entire issue to be settled once and for all
Or it could show that if you throw enough money at an issue you can twist the law to your benefit.

Gig companies aren't spending 200 million dollars to protect drivers interests. They are spending 200 million dollars to protect their own interests.

I agree, Prop 22 is just another step in the regulation of gig companies. I do think it will happen in 3-4 years at the very most six.

This issue has been dragged out far too long.
 

NicFit

Well-Known Member
Or it could show that if you throw enough money at an issue you can twist the law to your benefit.

Gig companies aren't spending 200 million dollars to protect drivers interests. They are spending 200 million dollars to protect their own interests.

I agree, Prop 22 is just another step in the regulation of gig companies. I do think it will happen in 3-4 years at the very most six.

This issue has been dragged out far too long.
Hahaha 3-4 years, maybe six? You have no idea how long stuff like this takes, AB5 has been in the works since 2005. 10-20 years minimum if it ever gets to the federal level. If Prop 22 passes then the federal government may take even longer to step in since people want drivers to stay independent contractors. You want to be an employee then go do something else then quit and find something else. Uber will remain independent contractors for quite the long while since Prop 22 will most likely pass
 

observer

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Hahaha 3-4 years, maybe six? You have no idea how long stuff like this takes, AB5 has been in the works since 2005. 10-20 years minimum if it ever gets to the federal level. If Prop 22 passes then the federal government may take even longer to step in since people want drivers to stay independent contractors. You want to be an employee then go do something else then quit and find something else. Uber will remain independent contractors for quite the long while since Prop 22 will most likely pass
Not likely.

The House of Representatives already passed an AB5 like bill. If Biden wins and the Senate flips it will likely be brought up again sooner than later.
 

NicFit

Well-Known Member
Not likely.

The House of Representatives already passed an AB5 like bill. If Biden wins and the Senate flips it will likely be brought up again sooner than later.
They don’t like presidential politics on this site but I don’t think your scenario will be easily done. Covid has first priority and most everything else has been pushed back at least a year or two. The Dems would have to control for several years to get the national laws changed as I wouldn’t think it would be a high priority and if Prop 22 passes they will have to reassess if people even want Uber to be employees and how hard would they fight to change national laws. I expect the Supreme Court would get involved at one point and that’s a decade at least, with Prop 22 passing it’ll be a huge fight that will take decades to figure out and by then I doubt I’ll care as I will have moved on from rideshare more then likely
 

Daisey77

Well-Known Member
So I read that the court has 61 days to hand it back down to the other jurisdiction. Once it gets handed back down to the lower level, it takes effect 30 days after. So if that time limit is maxed out at 91 days that puts us at the end of January. Well past the elections and the first of the year, but if they somehow get it handed back down in 2 weeks , it would take effect the beginning of December. I don't know what all that means in relation to proposition 22 and stuff but that's just the timeline oh, for what it's worth LOL

Drivers are cash-basis taxpayers on the RS earnings, unless they declared accrual method on their first tax return on which they filed RS income, and even then, they didn't have a clear right to receive the disputed earnings before the final court ruling under the "all events" test so they should not have recognized it. Thus, they will recognize the earnings from the judgment as taxable income in the year finally received.

*if LOL
y for some bizarre reason did claim unpaid earnings on past years' tax returns, then nothing happens for tax purposes when they get the payout, because they already recognized the income.

Now, you owe bear some food for that answer. :ninja:
I'm not quite sure how I feel about this but I cannot deny props were props is due and the bear deserves props because I don't know what the hell you just said. Not even a little bit. Absolutely no clue. how the hell is a bear smarter than me? LOL

Unfortunately due to the pandemic, I don't have extra lunch money. Perhaps if the drivers get a payout from this ruling, I might be able to get bear lunch. However, perhaps a cookie will suffice?

Attach0_20201024_045051.gif
 

observer

Well-Known Member
Moderator
They don’t like presidential politics on this site but I don’t think your scenario will be easily done. Covid has first priority and most everything else has been pushed back at least a year or two. The Dems would have to control for several years to get the national laws changed as I wouldn’t think it would be a high priority and if Prop 22 passes they will have to reassess if people even want Uber to be employees and how hard would they fight to change national laws. I expect the Supreme Court would get involved at one point and that’s a decade at least, with Prop 22 passing it’ll be a huge fight that will take decades to figure out and by then I doubt I’ll care as I will have moved on from rideshare more then likely
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Time will tell.
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Stevie The magic Unicorn

Well-Known Member
Uber shouldn’t be able to pay so little that the drivers don’t owe any taxes at all and the government has to foot the bill for unemployment health insurance ect for Full time workers.
 

NicFit

Well-Known Member
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Time will tell.
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Yea, one more reason not to vote for them, I don’t think there’s as many misclassified workers as they are claiming to be, they want more people to contribute to their socialist programs. Democrats don’t what you to make money, they want you to contribute to their programs so everyone can make your money. It’s part of their control, Dems want to micromanage everything in your life. Who are these people to decide what I should be doing? What gives them the right to decide that I’m misclassified? I find this to be a violation of my rights, I should get to choose to be an independent contractor if I want provided that the means are there to do so. Maybe they should give independent contractors more benefits rather then cutting their pay and forcing them into wage slavery. This approach of denying rights instead of fixing them is atrocious. There’s ways to fix the independent contractors without just outright denying them the right to work as an independent contractor, do yourself a favor and Vote Yes on Prop 22 and Vote for Trump
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Uber shouldn’t be able to pay so little that the drivers don’t owe any taxes at all and the government has to foot the bill for unemployment health insurance ect for Full time workers.
I owe taxes every year, if I hustled all year I could make six figures, but it’s exhausting. If you can’t make good money doing rideshare your not in the right area
 
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Jon Stoppable

Well-Known Member
Absolutely no clue. how the hell is a bear smarter than me? LOL

So after bear killed and ate the family with the minivan, bear found some books inside the van. Bear can't read, but bear has watched humans using smartphones so bear used the dead human's paw to unlock the phone and change the password. Next bear used the phone to take photos of the books and a text to voice app.

It turns out human was studying for the CPA exam, so bear learned the books so bear could be a CPA too. Sadly, it turns out the even though bear passed the exam, bears are not allowed to be CPAs. So bear turned to RS instead.

But bear sometimes remembers what bear had learned.
 

Daisey77

Well-Known Member
Who are these people to decide what I should be doing? What gives them the right to decide that I’m misclassified? I find this to be a violation of my rights, I should get to choose to be an independent contractor if I want provided that the means are there to do so.
Wooooow! A violation of your rights? 😅😅 please tell me what rights of yours were violated . I'll be waiting.

Those people who have the right to decide if you're misclassified are people citizens have voted into office, to enforce the laws that us citizens voted on. You seem to forget that this has went through multiple courts. Courts are simply enforcing the laws! You're directing your anger at the wrong folks. You literally sound like a child throwing a temper tantrum when they were told no.

Perhaps you should take your own advice. Aren't you always telling people if they're unhappy with this job, go find another one?
 

NicFit

Well-Known Member
Wooooow! A violation of your rights? 😅😅 please tell me what rights of yours were violated . I'll be waiting.

Those people who have the right to decide if you're misclassified are people citizens have voted into office, to enforce the laws that us citizens voted on. You seem to forget that this has went through multiple courts. Courts are simply enforcing the laws! You're directing your anger at the wrong folks. You literally sound like a child throwing a temper tantrum when they were told no.

Perhaps you should take your own advice. Aren't you always telling people if they're unhappy with this job, go find another one?
And if they try to make me an employee that’s what I’ll do. I will never work as a wage slave like some socialist ever again
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Why can’t I choose to be an independent contractor? And I didn’t vote for most of these people in California, others did but I voted against them as I don’t think they had my best interests in mind. I don’t like this system and would rather vote on every individual law they make since half the time they make these laws and people don’t like them and it ends up getting repealed in the votes anyway
 

wallae

Well-Known Member
Finally,good things happen for Uber/lyft drivers.. Don’t lose your HOPE against those greedy companies...
Good things
30 hour week
Being sent to area like Watts
Unable to decline rides
They will limit drivers so you will drive like mad😂😂
Oh happy day
 

Daisey77

Well-Known Member
Well I can see why the whole Boss thing didn't work out so well for you. 🤦‍♀️ sorry, I gotta ask . . . how old are you exactly? I'm just curious

And if they try to make me an employee that’s what I’ll do. I will never work as a wage slave like some socialist ever again
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