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Discussion starter · #21 · (Edited)
He is probably referring to the guys that are usually called "shade-tree mechanics" that fix people's cars on their customer's driveway etc. and don't necessarily have an actual shop building to work out of. Hence, they don't have any business license etc. to formalize their business which usually comes with the obligation to also collect tax on taxable items.

In other words, people who do things on the side and take payments under the table. Usually you have no recourse with those people if something happens since any warranty expires pretty much as soon as they have disappeared around the corner.
How can those mechanics fix a car by accepting "house calls"? At the very least, they would need to jack up the car to a height such that the parts at the bottom can be inspected, right? Besides, how do they know what to bring before examining the car?

I bet house calls are common since it is completely voluntary to whether documenting all the records for tax purpose and the cost of operation is minimal without owning a shop. No wonder they prefer cash payment. The shop owner asked me if I would pay cash too but I don't feel comfortable to carry $2k cash around.

What was wrong with the control arms? Needed new bushing repressed into them? Or what was the deal? Please let me know...
According to the service history, the first owner has replaced the lower control arms at ~55k miles. Perhaps this is why they are still strong today. The upper control arms however, are the original parts in 2004. While I have no idea how often should they be replaced, a life of ~120k miles for a mechanical part sounds pretty reliable to me already. The owner said the balls were lose with a few cracks on the control arms. The unit was replaced as a whole because you cannot just buy the bush or balls from Lexus (at least this is what he said).

Since repairs were done at shop that didn't have Lexus trainer and certified tech, Lexus will only honor price of part on warranty. You will be on the hook for labor required to make the repair.
Thank you for the information. I don't think the parts will fail... given that I paid almost triple the cost to get them from a Lexus dealer.
 
I never go to dealer, their mechanics don’t want to work and never find the problem. Always use the clean mechanic shop few towns away. Always put original parts. Still cheaper and faster than going to dealer.
 
How can those mechanics fix a car by accepting "house calls"? At the very least, they would need to jack up the car to a height such that the parts at the bottom can be inspected, right? Besides, how do they know what to bring before examining the car?

I bet house calls are common since it is completely voluntary to whether documenting all the records for tax purpose and the cost of operation is minimal without owning a shop. No wonder they prefer cash payment. The shop owner asked me if I would pay cash too but I don't feel comfortable to carry $2k cash around.

According to the service history, the first owner has replaced the lower control arms at ~55k miles. Perhaps this is why they are still strong today. The upper control arms however, are the original parts in 2004. While I have no idea how often should they be replaced, a life of ~120k miles for a mechanical part sounds pretty reliable to me already. The owner said the balls were lose with a few cracks on the control arms. The unit was replaced as a whole because you cannot just buy the bush or balls from Lexus (at least this is what he said).

Thank you for the information. I don't think the parts will fail... given that I paid almost triple the cost to get them from a Lexus dealer.
Mechanics that come to you have Jack's, car stands, engine cranes, torque wrench, etc...Not everytime does a car need to go on a lift for inspection. When you are familiar with what you are dealing with, typically one calls the mechanic and says I need a "new water pump or timing belt or blew a head gasket or oil pan seal, whatever it is" that way the mechanic knows what equipment they will need. Rarely does a car absolutely have to go on a lift. Try watching how a tractor is fixed in a field or think about how to use a slope to your advantage to do an oil change. Just some comments...Have to heard of mobile welders same principle...Typically people can get a discount for paying in cash...Sounds like I was somewhat correct on not needing upper and lower controls arms...It sounds like you just needed the lower control arms prestuffed. I glad your deal worked out...BTW bushing can be repressed with a hydraulic press, that is not a welded part...Even welded parts can be fixed depending, sometimes not worth it, just ask a welder...Also, I am curious how does your lexus qualify for lux or select in Houston?
 
I just dropped $961 last week getting my car ready to go back driving FT. My overall bill was $350 cheaper than the dealership estimate.

Found an excellent shop that specializes in Uber drivers. Been using him for a year now.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Mechanics that come to you have Jack's, car stands, engine cranes, torque wrench, etc...Not everytime does a car need to go on a lift for inspection. When you are familiar with what you are dealing with, typically one calls the mechanic and says I need a "new water pump or timing belt or blew a head gasket or oil pan seal, whatever it is" that way the mechanic knows what equipment they will need. Rarely does a car absolutely have to go on a lift. Try watching how a tractor is fixed in a field or think about how to use a slope to your advantage to do an oil change. Just some comments...Have to heard of mobile welders same principle...Typically people can get a discount for paying in cash...Sounds like I was somewhat correct on not needing upper and lower controls arms...It sounds like you just needed the lower control arms prestuffed. I glad your deal worked out...BTW bushing can be repressed with a hydraulic press, that is not a welded part...Even welded parts can be fixed depending, sometimes not worth it, just ask a welder...Also, I am curious how does your lexus qualify for lux or select in Houston?
She also has a newer ES350, which still qualifies.
I have actually asked the shop owner whether the lower arms should be replaced too but he said they could still endure another ~30k miles at minimum. They should be fine even I do a few round trips between Houston and Philadelphia 😆.

When I signed up for Uber, my 2004 was also approved for Select to my surprise. It should have exceeded the age limit of the Select platform. My guess is that there were system errors such that certain information were shared between the cars. My other car is a LS 460L. The ES 350 mentioned in other threads is my sister's car.
 
I’m not going to try and burst your bubble on you thinking you got a great deal on these parts... but if you had checked partsgeek.com I’m sure you will realize your good deal is not so good after all... 🤷‍♂️

By the way, most after market part manufacturers are indeed most likely the OEM manufacturer for the original parts in most vehicles. They just stamp a different part number is all. Parts Geek will indicate OEM as well.
 
Aftermarket parts are often far superior to OEM parts. This is especially true with reputable performance parts. There is a submarket of cheap crap and often times suspension parts are included. Your best bet if you do not want to research parts manufacturers is to go OEM which I think you did.

The only difference between the Toyota part and the Lexus part besides price might be a Lexus stamp on the part. Always buy the Toyota part when possible. You gain nothing by paying more for the Lexus part.
 
I once owned a 1992 Lamborghini Diablo. Window switches and some dash hardware was direct from a 90's era Chrysler product.

My Ferrari 308 could be repaired with numerous brake and mechanical components from Fiats of the same vintage.

A lot of high end as well as low end car parts are totally interchangeable. Porsche and VW switches from the 80's and 90's.......same for Rolls Royce and GM parts from the same era. Or, RR and BMW today.

Only a handful of companies make the same parts for many manufacturer's.

I once walked into a Chevy dealer and bought a starter heat shield for a 454 engined PU truck. It actually was going on my 1974 454 engined Corvette for 1/3 the price.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
I'm not going to try and burst your bubble on you thinking you got a great deal on these parts... but if you had checked partsgeek.com I'm sure you will realize your good deal is not so good after all... 🤷‍♂

By the way, most after market part manufacturers are indeed most likely the OEM manufacturer for the original parts in most vehicles. They just stamp a different part number is all. Parts Geek will indicate OEM as well.
After reading your reply, I have the following question in my mind. Does Lexus assemble a car using parts from different manufacturers? If this is the case, then I have overpaid for 'lego cars'. How can they not make their own parts but to put different blocks that fit and overcharge the buyers? This is so unethical.

In fact, I am very satisfied with the $1000 I saved from dealership labour while the job is done right. What is a reasonable price in your mind to replace both front upper control arms and struts? Thank you.
 
Does Lexus assemble a car using parts from different manufacturers? If this is the case, then I have overpaid for 'lego cars'. How can they not make their own parts but to put different blocks that fit and overcharge the buyers? This is so unethical.
Almost every manufacturer does this. Is some cases there are only 2-3 suppliers for major component such as Borg Warner or ZF for transmissions, Bosch for electronics, etc.

The automatic transmission for a Ferrari 456 is $40K from the authorized dealer.......HOWEVER, it is about $5K from GM as it is basically a Turbohydramatic 400 assembly. Just another example of many. Lexus is not a premium vehicle, it is a mainly a marketing exercise with automotive rebadging and styling as it's core components. Not saying it is a bad vehicle, it's just a rebadged Toyota with some subtle differences they a charge a lot more for.
 
After reading your reply, I have the following question in my mind. Does Lexus assemble a car using parts from different manufacturers? If this is the case, then I have overpaid for 'lego cars'. How can they not make their own parts but to put different blocks that fit and overcharge the buyers? This is so unethical.

In fact, I am very satisfied with the $1000 I saved from dealership labour while the job is done right. What is a reasonable price in your mind to replace both front upper control arms and struts? Thank you.
Just about every part for most vehicles is manufactured by Johnson Controls, Standard, Monroe, Dorman, TRW, BOSCH, Walker, ACDelco and a host of others... They may sell these replacement parts stamped under a WorldPac # through 3rd party websites or parts distribution.

Auto manufacturers are in the business of ASSEMBLING vehicles, and may manufacture certain things such as engines or stamp body panels. Most do not even build there own frames, and such frames may be built by Fisher, etc.

Just like @ANT 7 was trying to explain many parts are standardized. Many Fords back in the day used GM drive train parts. Needed a drive shaft for a Lincoln, it's built by GM.

The reasoning for this, is if a particular company has the production capacity and the tooling to produce specific parts, no need for multiple manufacturers to build plants for the same exact thing even if you are direct competitors with each other. It's about saving $$$ in the end.

This is not only done with vehicles, it's also done with just about everything you buy even food. Notice how many times a package of food states "manufactured for" on the label. Same thing with washing machines. GE builds some of whirlpool machines. Cause it's cheaper when they are already tooled for this.

As for your car, just check partsgeek.com for the pricing of the parts replaced. See how much on the parts you could have saved compared to what you were charged by the mechanic. I would say his labor charges were about right, as struts are not always easy to install. Many mechanics will allow you to supply your own parts as well. You just need to shop around.

BTW, In no way am I criticizing you for your decision to have this mechanic fix your vehicle. 😊 He saves you a lot of money, I'm just saying you could have saved more. 👍

Almost every manufacturer does this. Is some cases there are only 2-3 suppliers for major component such as Borg Warner or ZF for transmissions, Bosch for electronics, etc.

The automatic transmission for a Ferrari 456 is $40K from the authorized dealer.......HOWEVER, it is about $5K from GM as it is basically a Turbohydramatic 400 assembly. Just another example of many. Lexus is not a premium vehicle, it is a mainly a marketing exercise with automotive rebadging and styling as it's core components. Not saying it is a bad vehicle, it's just a rebadged Toyota with some subtle differences they a charge a lot more for.
I am willing to bet a lot of people sure would give you a blank stare mentioning ZF, even though they are the largest manufacturer of transmissions in the world... :roflmao:
 
After reading your reply, I have the following question in my mind. Does Lexus assemble a car using parts from different manufacturers? If this is the case, then I have overpaid for 'lego cars'. How can they not make their own parts but to put different blocks that fit and overcharge the buyers? This is so unethical.

In fact, I am very satisfied with the $1000 I saved from dealership labour while the job is done right. What is a reasonable price in your mind to replace both front upper control arms and struts? Thank you.
Yes!
 
There must be a reason for such a remarkable price difference for the exactly same part.
What accounts for the price difference?
It's purely branding and mark-up, just like a designer pair of jeans.
Can you elaborate please?
Here he is talking about tax evasion pure and simple. Doesn't have to be outside of a shop either, if you pay cash anywhere the business owner can choose to not report that income and destroy any evidence of the transaction in their records to avoid paying tax. Theoretically they can pass some of the savings onto you, if you want to leverage such a deal.

How can they not make their own parts but to put different blocks that fit and overcharge the buyers? This is so unethical.
As others have said this is common "business practice". Many common business practices in many industries are completely misleading or unethical. Unfortunately (in America) you can't even trust your doctor to make ethical medical decisions when either he/she or they hospital they work for is profiting off your treatment. Colleges force you to take classes you don't need to increase their tuition revenues, etc. etc...

Even the most trusted professions and institutions are commonly taking advantage of people for financial profit, so when you have something like car dealerships which are infamously known to be very dishonest you can only imagine what they are doing behind the scenes.

TLDR many people who want your money are willing to do unethical things to get more of it, and when it becomes "common practice" they don't even think they are doing anything wrong.
 
Good afternoon everyone. In April, my car was inspected by 2 different dealers; each with different diagnosis. I have created a thread (with link below) and I do value everyone's input.

Long story short, there are some occasional cracking noises when making turns. One dealer recommended the replacement of upper front control arms while the other recommended replacing the front struts. At that time, I was not too convinced but the noise frequency had increased recently which prompted me to seek a tertiary opinion from a mechanic referred by my friend. The shop is owned by an Indian family with only 3 mechanics, including the owner. The upfront diagnostic fee of $50 will be deducted from the repairs, for which I agree.

Half an hour later, he told me that it was the front struts that caused the noise when making turns. There were also some cracks in the control arms but he thinks they do not deserve immediate attention. I was quoted $340 for struts (aftermarket) on both sides and 3 hours of labour. He gave me a big laugh when I insisted on using factory parts saying that his customers never returned for issues related to aftermarket parts. Personally, money is not a determining factor when it comes to repairs but I really need to get the job done right.

This morning the owner gave me an update. He said that the noise problem had attenuated significantly but it would also require the replacement of the control arms to get rid of the noise completely. I bet the 2 dealers did not make up the repairs since both diagnoses were confirmed by a third party. He asked how much I wanted to spend in the parts. I understand that he wanted to help me saving money but I do not really feel comfortable to install some random parts to my car. He said that I was probably one of the most stubborn customers that he had even seen 😅, after I also declined the use of Toyota parts ( $140 VS Lexus $390 on each side). There must be a reason for such a remarkable price difference for the exactly same part.

With the struts and upper front control arms replaced, here is the break down of the cost.
Struts - parts $250 x 2 + labour $90 x 3 = $770
Upper front control arms - parts $390 x 2 + labour $90 x 2 = $ 960
Alignment - $80
Discount - $20
With tax, the total cost will be ~$1900 which sounds like a great deal to me (The same jobs done by the dealer would have costed $3400).

This is my first time for not serving my car at the dealer. I know it still sounds ridiculous to invest $2k in a 16-year old car.
I read the first 12 words and you have a dysfunctional half shaft. it is a small driveshaft your vehicle has two of the one left one right they have large bearings and the sometimes crack so when toy turn and apply pressure on the bearing it starts crackling.
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Never us factory replacement parts unless it is electrical or body parts. Aftermarket shocks and struts are good quality.
 
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