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AB-5 amended on Friday, July 11. 2X minimum wage and other additions, carve-outs

yomomma

Well-Known Member
Well, ignoring your futile attempts to insult me and most of the other drivers on this forum, lets correct a couple things.

If someone wants to switch from rideshare to limo driving, yes they're free to do so. Does limo driving have anything whatsoever to do with the classification of rideshare drivers as ICs or employees and the conditions of AB-5? Other than driving limo drivers also driving for U/L, absolutely not. This discussion thread is about the impact that AB-5 will have on U/L and the vast majority of drivers, not "If you don't like it, go do something else, scumbag!"



Clearly, you don't have any clue what negotiating is. When a company, like Uber or Lyft sets rates and your choice is take it or leave it, that is not a negotiation. Legally speaking, drivers are NOT free to negotiate rates. They only have the choice of accepting the set rates or not driving. That is not a negotiation, so you're completely wrong about what constitutes "negotiating rates".

Now, let's discuss your insults.

While most people on this forum, and, in fact, most drivers agree that we're all being abused and underpaid at every turn by Uber and Lyft, the majority like doing this, or at least, need the gig. Yes, there are ways out of it, and yes, conditions are terrible. But have you ever heard the phrase "throwing the baby out with the bath water"? You'd have everyone quit driving and move on to something else. For most of us, we'd rather find a middle ground that works for both sides. It's called being part of the solution, not part of the problem. You assume that people are either too dumb to quit or have already "moved on". There are so many reasons that people still drive that you haven't given any consideration.

Everything you said in your rant has been said in one form or another elsewhere. Your rant is about "GTFO of rideshare" and nothing to do with discussing AB-5, the new amended version or its impact on rideshare. If you want to rant about getting out, start a thread about getting out of rideshare and have at it! Nobody needs the disruption that you're adding to the civil discussion here.

So instead of being insulting and hostile to everyone, how about contributing constructively to the discussion. It would be more than welcome! If you want to continue to just rant, yell, insult drivers, and howl at the moon, I'd personally welcome your exit. Or as my sweet old, late grandmother used to say, "If you don't have anything constructive to say, STFU!"

I took the trouble to read most of your posts since you joined last week. Most of them serve to insult or berate people. Why are you expending so much energy to attack people that have done nothing to you? Do you not have anything better to do???? Can't you contribute to any discussion in a positive vein????? Or do you just like to see how much you can get people wound up? Guess it's time to reach for that "ignore" button.

It's funny, totally laughable to watch some people try to make a point. When civil discussion proves too difficult to accomplish, they resort to yelling, name calling, insults, and just plain ranting. They think that the louder they are, or the more insulting they are, the more effective they will be, and that it'll convince others to agree with them. Just the opposite is true. The reality is that everyone else sees the argument rant for what it is, a futile attempt to influence other simple-minded people who can't analyze a situation and make informed judgements or even make a single valid point.
The issue of not fighting back - which clearly a lot of imbeciles don't get - is to prevent a 3rd world capitalist move in this country. We have already been through those days in the early 1900's, and China and the other "socialist" states are just in the midst of theirs'.There is a reason labor laws were legislated in this country, and so far it has helped it become the number 1 economic power.

Looks like AB 5 is doing its job of shaking things up.
 

Fuberal

Well-Known Member
Well, ignoring your futile attempts to insult me and most of the other drivers on this forum, lets correct a couple things.

If someone wants to switch from rideshare to limo driving, yes they're free to do so. Does limo driving have anything whatsoever to do with the classification of rideshare drivers as ICs or employees and the conditions of AB-5? Other than driving limo drivers also driving for U/L, absolutely not. This discussion thread is about the impact that AB-5 will have on U/L and the vast majority of drivers, not "If you don't like it, go do something else, scumbag!"



Clearly, you don't have any clue what negotiating is. When a company, like Uber or Lyft sets rates and your choice is take it or leave it, that is not a negotiation. Legally speaking, drivers are NOT free to negotiate rates. They only have the choice of accepting the set rates or not driving. That is not a negotiation, so you're completely wrong about what constitutes "negotiating rates".

Now, let's discuss your insults.

While most people on this forum, and, in fact, most drivers agree that we're all being abused and underpaid at every turn by Uber and Lyft, the majority like doing this, or at least, need the gig. Yes, there are ways out of it, and yes, conditions are terrible. But have you ever heard the phrase "throwing the baby out with the bath water"? You'd have everyone quit driving and move on to something else. For most of us, we'd rather find a middle ground that works for both sides. It's called being part of the solution, not part of the problem. You assume that people are either too dumb to quit or have already "moved on". There are so many reasons that people still drive that you haven't given any consideration.

Everything you said in your rant has been said in one form or another elsewhere. Your rant is about "GTFO of rideshare" and nothing to do with discussing AB-5, the new amended version or its impact on rideshare. If you want to rant about getting out, start a thread about getting out of rideshare and have at it! Nobody needs the disruption that you're adding to the civil discussion here.

So instead of being insulting and hostile to everyone, how about contributing constructively to the discussion. It would be more than welcome! If you want to continue to just rant, yell, insult drivers, and howl at the moon, I'd personally welcome your exit. Or as my sweet old, late grandmother used to say, "If you don't have anything constructive to say, STFU!"

I took the trouble to read most of your posts since you joined last week. Most of them serve to insult or berate people. Why are you expending so much energy to attack people that have done nothing to you? Do you not have anything better to do???? Can't you contribute to any discussion in a positive vein????? Or do you just like to see how much you can get people wound up? Guess it's time to reach for that "ignore" button.

It's funny, totally laughable to watch some people try to make a point. When civil discussion proves too difficult to accomplish, they resort to yelling, name calling, insults, and just plain ranting. They think that the louder they are, or the more insulting they are, the more effective they will be, and that it'll convince others to agree with them. Just the opposite is true. The reality is that everyone else sees the argument rant for what it is, a futile attempt to influence other simple-minded people who can't analyze a situation and make informed judgements or even make a single valid point.
When will you learn not to spend your time on useless trolls, God knows UP had its share.
 

scatman

Well-Known Member
At first read, it looks like U/L can keep us as ICs, but will have to work hard to do it.
I don't see it that way. It looks like more hoops for U/L to jump through in order to keep drivers as ICs.

They'll probably take a hard look at it to decide which is more beneficial to them - keeping drivers as ICs or changing to employees.
U/L DOESN'T ever want us to be employees. They would rather pay us $50/hr than to be subject to CA employment laws. Their whole business model is predicated on their drivers being ICs.
 
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Chocoholic

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
I don't see it that way. It looks like more hoops for U/L to jump through in order to keep drivers as ICs.
Ummm, that's what I said. It might be possible to keep us as ICs, but it won't be easy.

U/L doesn't ever want their drivers to be employees. I think they would rather pay drivers $50 minimum wage than to be subject to CA employment laws. Their whole business model would change if we became employees. I don't know if they can succeed if that happens.
No, they don't want drivers as employees. It'll cost them $3600 a year per employee to do so, according to reports.

But, if they're FORCED to, they'll probably do it and make a lot of changes. They'll take advantage of everything they can to offset that extra cost.

Now, if it comes down to a way that they have a choice, they're not going to just have a knee jerk reaction. They're going to analyze it from every angle, every cost and every benefit, and go with what they perceive is most profitable for them. And, of course, they'll have their own definition of what's most profitable. That could include, for Uber, "If we made everyone employees and banned them from driving for Lyft, could we put Lyft out of business and gain massively more market share?" THAT's always been in their culture and thinking. Remember, this is a company, Uber, that would cut their nose off to spite their face! Lyft isn't much different. And, do you think that Lyft wouldn't do the same?

If "most profitable alternative" means employees, that's what they'll do. If it means ICs, then they'll jump through hoops to make it happen!
Of course, if the new law, once finalized, doesn't give them an out, they'll almost certainly go along, kicking and screaming all the way. They won't like it, but they'll do it. California is just too big a market. And, they may also go broke doing it.
 

WEY00L

Well-Known Member
I don't see that anything here has changed.
The problem with the original bill and the current version is item B.
Getting around that for U/L does not seem possible.

If the intent is to carve out an exemption for ride share then they need to make sure drivers get a proper due bill.
A true independent contractor knows how much the work will pay, how long it will take to complete the work BEFORE they agree to accept the work.
 

Driver_Down

Well-Known Member
To lead you idiots from your own self imposed slavery and lead you into the light of freedom. So many lost people on here. It is getting harder and harder for me to remain on here. Most decent people have left. Not many good ones to try to save, mostly junk left. I feel guilty not trying to help them, even though most of the remaining ones are pretty much helpless.
Jeez @@@@ing just like jehovah witness over. Yeah certainly insulting people is going to help them come to your side. Arguments 101 ??

So if you believe most are lost causes and yet you still try then what does that make you?! An even more lost cause. The blind leading the blind ?☺
 

Chocoholic

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #31
I don't see that anything here has changed.
The problem with the original bill and the current version is item B.
Getting around that for U/L does not seem possible.

If the intent is to carve out an exemption for ride share then they need to make sure drivers get a proper due bill.
A true independent contractor knows how much the work will pay, how long it will take to complete the work BEFORE they agree to accept the work.
Well, the game isn't over. There's nothing preventing more amendments and we still don't know what Gov. Newsom will do. And since the legislature is taking the next month off, we'll just have to wait and see. :whistling:
 

Driver_Down

Well-Known Member
I don't see that anything here has changed.
The problem with the original bill and the current version is item B.
Getting around that for U/L does not seem possible.

If the intent is to carve out an exemption for ride share then they need to make sure drivers get a proper due bill.
A true independent contractor knows how much the work will pay, how long it will take to complete the work BEFORE they agree to accept the work.
Total distance, pick up and drop off points, estimated and at the very least an estimated minimum pay for the ride.

Also set up parameters so one doesn’t end up 60+ miles away in area they don’t work or even want to work. Taxi drivers stay in their counties.
 

Pueblo Confusion

Well-Known Member
Well, ignoring your futile attempts to insult me and most of the other drivers on this forum, lets correct a couple things.

If someone wants to switch from rideshare to limo driving, yes they're free to do so. Does limo driving have anything whatsoever to do with the classification of rideshare drivers as ICs or employees and the conditions of AB-5? Other than driving limo drivers also driving for U/L, absolutely not. This discussion thread is about the impact that AB-5 will have on U/L and the vast majority of drivers, not "If you don't like it, go do something else, scumbag!"



Clearly, you don't have any clue what negotiating is. When a company, like Uber or Lyft sets rates and your choice is take it or leave it, that is not a negotiation. Legally speaking, drivers are NOT free to negotiate rates. They only have the choice of accepting the set rates or not driving. That is not a negotiation, so you're completely wrong about what constitutes "negotiating rates".

Now, let's discuss your insults.

While most people on this forum, and, in fact, most drivers agree that we're all being abused and underpaid at every turn by Uber and Lyft, the majority like doing this, or at least, need the gig. Yes, there are ways out of it, and yes, conditions are terrible. But have you ever heard the phrase "throwing the baby out with the bath water"? You'd have everyone quit driving and move on to something else. For most of us, we'd rather find a middle ground that works for both sides. It's called being part of the solution, not part of the problem. You assume that people are either too dumb to quit or have already "moved on". There are so many reasons that people still drive that you haven't given any consideration.

Everything you said in your rant has been said in one form or another elsewhere. Your rant is about "GTFO of rideshare" and nothing to do with discussing AB-5, the new amended version or its impact on rideshare. If you want to rant about getting out, start a thread about getting out of rideshare and have at it! Nobody needs the disruption that you're adding to the civil discussion here.

So instead of being insulting and hostile to everyone, how about contributing constructively to the discussion. It would be more than welcome! If you want to continue to just rant, yell, insult drivers, and howl at the moon, I'd personally welcome your exit. Or as my sweet old, late grandmother used to say, "If you don't have anything constructive to say, STFU!"

I took the trouble to read most of your posts since you joined last week. Most of them serve to insult or berate people. Why are you expending so much energy to attack people that have done nothing to you? Do you not have anything better to do???? Can't you contribute to any discussion in a positive vein????? Or do you just like to see how much you can get people wound up? Guess it's time to reach for that "ignore" button.

It's funny, totally laughable to watch some people try to make a point. When civil discussion proves too difficult to accomplish, they resort to yelling, name calling, insults, and just plain ranting. They think that the louder they are, or the more insulting they are, the more effective they will be, and that it'll convince others to agree with them. Just the opposite is true. The reality is that everyone else sees the argument rant for what it is, a futile attempt to influence other simple-minded people who can't analyze a situation and make informed judgements or even make a single valid point.
A lot of words to indirectly admit to being an Uber slave who can't do anything else. If you really can't firgue out how to make a phone call to a limo company and rely on backroom politics on a bill you hoping Uber won't be able to make loopholes to save you then you deserve to be a rideshare driver. It is over. Even if this bill passes, rideshare is not going to improve. It will never be back to what it was when it started. That is done. Anyone with a brain is getting out. I doubt they are calling their company and quiting or breaking their contract because some California bill may or not pass.
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I should start Uber driver pit fights. Throw them into a pit with a wrench and 5 underfed dogs and take bets.
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Jeez @@@@ing just like jehovah witness over. Yeah certainly insulting people is going to help them come to your side. Arguments 101 ??

So if you believe most are lost causes and yet you still try then what does that make you?! An even more lost cause. The blind leading the blind ?☺
A lot of lost hope here. Rideshare is becoming an asylum on wheels.
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When will you learn not to spend your time on useless trolls, God knows UP had its share.
Is that what your teachers taught you? Well their advice sure paid off. Tou are a successful Uber driver.
 

somedriverguy

Well-Known Member
You can already negotiate your own rates. It is called contracting with a limo company. Also get your own TCP. Cash rides. Etc. Uber driver = pathetic.
Having the ability to negotiate your rates with some other company does not make it ok for UBER to fix your price and then call you an IC.
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To lead you idiots from your own self imposed slavery and lead you into the light of freedom. So many lost people on here. It is getting harder and harder for me to remain on here. Most decent people have left. Not many good ones to try to save, mostly junk left. I feel guilty not trying to help them, even though most of the remaining ones are pretty much helpless.
Bye Felicia.
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Well, ignoring your futile attempts to insult me and most of the other drivers on this forum, lets correct a couple things.

If someone wants to switch from rideshare to limo driving, yes they're free to do so. Does limo driving have anything whatsoever to do with the classification of rideshare drivers as ICs or employees and the conditions of AB-5? Other than driving limo drivers also driving for U/L, absolutely not. This discussion thread is about the impact that AB-5 will have on U/L and the vast majority of drivers, not "If you don't like it, go do something else, scumbag!"



Clearly, you don't have any clue what negotiating is. When a company, like Uber or Lyft sets rates and your choice is take it or leave it, that is not a negotiation. Legally speaking, drivers are NOT free to negotiate rates. They only have the choice of accepting the set rates or not driving. That is not a negotiation, so you're completely wrong about what constitutes "negotiating rates".

Now, let's discuss your insults.

While most people on this forum, and, in fact, most drivers agree that we're all being abused and underpaid at every turn by Uber and Lyft, the majority like doing this, or at least, need the gig. Yes, there are ways out of it, and yes, conditions are terrible. But have you ever heard the phrase "throwing the baby out with the bath water"? You'd have everyone quit driving and move on to something else. For most of us, we'd rather find a middle ground that works for both sides. It's called being part of the solution, not part of the problem. You assume that people are either too dumb to quit or have already "moved on". There are so many reasons that people still drive that you haven't given any consideration.

Everything you said in your rant has been said in one form or another elsewhere. Your rant is about "GTFO of rideshare" and nothing to do with discussing AB-5, the new amended version or its impact on rideshare. If you want to rant about getting out, start a thread about getting out of rideshare and have at it! Nobody needs the disruption that you're adding to the civil discussion here.

So instead of being insulting and hostile to everyone, how about contributing constructively to the discussion. It would be more than welcome! If you want to continue to just rant, yell, insult drivers, and howl at the moon, I'd personally welcome your exit. Or as my sweet old, late grandmother used to say, "If you don't have anything constructive to say, STFU!"

I took the trouble to read most of your posts since you joined last week. Most of them serve to insult or berate people. Why are you expending so much energy to attack people that have done nothing to you? Do you not have anything better to do???? Can't you contribute to any discussion in a positive vein????? Or do you just like to see how much you can get people wound up? Guess it's time to reach for that "ignore" button.

It's funny, totally laughable to watch some people try to make a point. When civil discussion proves too difficult to accomplish, they resort to yelling, name calling, insults, and just plain ranting. They think that the louder they are, or the more insulting they are, the more effective they will be, and that it'll convince others to agree with them. Just the opposite is true. The reality is that everyone else sees the argument rant for what it is, a futile attempt to influence other simple-minded people who can't analyze a situation and make informed judgements or even make a single valid point.
Precisely because it takes so much energy to refute him is the reason he loads his posts with so much crap. It's strictly an attention ploy at the level he presents at.
 
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Fisfis

Well-Known Member
B is open to interpretation. They may find a way around that one. [Edit: Oops, I read the wrong clause, nevermind.]

J is going to mandate 2x min wage = $24 minimum/hr. But is that time online, on the way to a pax, or just while pax is in the car?
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Well, your view on rideshare drivers is clear. Instead of trying to insult people, how about contributing something useful to the conversation.

In terms of AB-5 and Uber/Lyft, no, a driver can't currently negotiate rates with Uber and Lyft. Your statement about contracting with a limo company has no bearing on how AB-5 applies to Uber and Lyft.
Minimum wage is $14 in LA County.
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I don't see that anything here has changed.
The problem with the original bill and the current version is item B.
Getting around that for U/L does not seem possible.

If the intent is to carve out an exemption for ride share then they need to make sure drivers get a proper due bill.
A true independent contractor knows how much the work will pay, how long it will take to complete the work BEFORE they agree to accept the work.
Quack!
 
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VinnyTheDriver

Well-Known Member
The issue of not fighting back - which clearly a lot of imbeciles don't get - is to prevent a 3rd world capitalist move in this country. We have already been through those days in the early 1900's, and China and the other "socialist" states are just in the midst of theirs'.There is a reason labor laws were legislated in this country, and so far it has helped it become the number 1 economic power.

Looks like AB 5 is doing its job of shaking things up.
You do know we were the #1 economic power in the late 1800’s before all of these labor laws were instituted.
 

somedriverguy

Well-Known Member
You do know we were the #1 economic power in the late 1800’s before all of these labor laws were instituted.
If you would like to go back to killing children in machine shops I hear there is a shortage of overseers in the Near and Far East. You could easily make half or a quarter of what you make driving UBER helping people get rid of their unwanted extra sons and daughters over there.
 
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