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1) I hate MLMs; 2) I signed up to drive for Tryp; and 3) I am not a hypocrite.

1) I hate MLMs; 2) I signed up to drive for Tryp; and 3) I am not a hypocrite.

If you are already familiar with the new rideshare company Tryp, then you know they use MLM (Multi-Level Marketing) to recruit drivers to their rideshare platform. So how can I state both #1 and #2 without being a hypocrite?

The reason I hate MLMs is not because they are MLMs. I hate them because of why people who become MLM sales reps fail. In fact, the reason I signed up to drive for Tryp is because Tryp avoids that same why that causes drivers to fail on Uber and Lyft.


Uber and Lyft drivers suffer from the same problem MLM sales reps do.


The biggest reason people who join up to sell for MLMs fail is because the market gets saturated with sales reps for the MLM. If you were the only sales rep in town for the MLM you joined, you’d have a pretty good chance at succeeding as a sales rep for the MLM (assuming it’s a decent product or service). But when your neighbor is also a sales rep for the same MLM, the woman across the street is too, five people on the next block also are, two dozen in the apartment complex around the corner are too, etc, etc…. then it’s close to impossible for any sales rep of the MLM to succeed, except for those at the top that recruited so well that they created the saturation now being experienced by those below them.

In a nutshell, when there’s another one just like you on every street corner, you are highly likely to fail as an MLM sales rep.

Let me say that again, as you can’t miss this point… when there’s another one just like you on every street corner, you are highly likely to fail as an MLM sales rep.

Does that sound familiar? It should. If you are an Uber/Lyft driver this should be hitting home with you, because unless you drive for Uber/Lyft in some remote area, you’ve experienced that exact same issue in the cities Uber and Lyft operates in. And if you haven’t…. just wait. The gig seems great for a while, and then all the sudden you can’t make half of what you were before, because there are drivers online everywhere. This is a big reason why Uber has as high as 96% of their drivers quit within a year of starting to drive (see CNBC.com: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/20/only-4-percent-of-uber-drivers-remain-after-a-year-says-report.html).


99% fail… 96% quit… Tomato…. ToMAHto….


Similarly speaking, FTC studies have shown that as many as 99% of people who join MLMs as sales reps fail (see FTC.gov: https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00010 /00010-57283.pdf). So…. MLM sales rep…. Uber driver…. one on every street corner…. 99% fail…. 96% quit…. Are you seeing the comparison here?

Forget that a driver is a completely different job than being a sales rep. Because It’s not the type of job that matters. Also forget that Uber and Lyft are not MLMs. Because it’s not the type of company that matters. It’s the over-saturated market conditions that matter.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. Being a sales rep in an over-saturated market is a duck. Being an Uber/Lyft driver in an over-saturated market is a duck. They are both ducks, because over-saturation sucks. The model MLMs use naturally results in over-saturation of their sales reps, and the model Uber and Lyft use naturally result in over-saturation of their drivers. So, the reason I hate MLMs is the exact same reason I hate Uber and Lyft. Their business models both naturally result in over-saturation.


Doesn’t that make Tryp twice as bad?


So now, you might be thinking, wouldn’t that make Tryp twice as bad? Isn’t it just combining the Uber model with an MLM model?

For the driver, the answer is clearly no, for two reasons: 1) Tryp’s subscription-based service fee model avoids the problem that both Uber and Lyft’s models suffer from that results in the over-saturation of drivers on their platforms; and 2) Tryp drivers don’t have to be MLM sales reps… Tryp drivers can just be drivers.


How does Tryp avoid driver over-saturation?


Drivers have been asking Uber and Lyft for years to either put a limit on the number of drivers that can sign up, or a limit on the number of drivers that can be online at the same time. Such limits would be very similar to what cities have done for decades, where they limit the number of taxi licenses, sometimes called medallions. In New York city, one taxi medallion was worth nearly $1 million to the person that owned it. This is because limits create scarcity, which results in value. It’s a simple economic principle. Government created these limits because without them so many taxis became available, it reduced the value of their services so much that the taxi drivers couldn’t make a living (a situation very similar to why 96% of drivers Uber drivers quit within a year).


What the drivers are asking Uber and Lyft to do would also be like limitations some other driving gig apps have, like Doordash, where a Doordash delivery driver can’t logon to be available to accept deliveries unless the app is allowing more drivers to logon in an area.


However, Uber and Lyft benefit from the over-saturation of drivers on their platforms. When it’s occurring, riders get matched to a driver closer and quicker than they would if the market was not over-saturated with drivers, which reduces the chances of the potential rider using the other platform to get a ride. So, Uber and Lyft have absolutely zero reason to do anything about this. They would never add a feature to their platform that creates such a limit unless some serious market condition, or government regulation forced them to.


Tryp on the other hand doesn’t even need to add such a feature. The subscription-based service fee model Tryp uses naturally results in limitation. According to Uber, around half of Uber drivers drive for Uber for less than 10 hours per week (see Fastcompany.com: https://www.fastcompany.com/90240917/driving-for-uber-and-lyft-full-time-is-getting-harder). That means that around half of Uber drivers would not sign up to drive for Tryp, because they don’t drive enough to benefit from Tryp’s once a month $199 service fee subscription model. The full time Uber drivers who are having $1000+ in service fees taken from their fares will love only having to only pay $199 in service fees instead of $1000+. But for most drivers who drive less than 10 hours per week, the $199 monthly Tryp service fee would cost them more than the total service fees Uber is currently taking from their fares every month. Thus, they won’t drive for Tryp.


A subscription fee is a barrier to entry… a limitation.


That is what is called a “barrier to entry”. The barrier limits the number of people who enter. Tryp doesn’t have to create a feature on the platform to limit the number of drivers, because their $199 barrier to entry does that naturally. So, if all existing rideshare riders are potential Tryp riders, but only half of existing rideshare drivers are potential Tryp drivers, Tryp is naturally going to have a healthier rider to driver ratio on their platform compared to Uber and Lyft, as Tryp establishes its presence in the rideshare market.


In fact, to the driver it doesn’t even matter what share of the rideshare market Tryp gets. In other words, the question “will Tryp get enough riders”, while being important to the owners of Tryp, is somewhat meaningless to the drivers. Uber could get a million ride requests in day, but if there are a million drivers online that day, every Uber driver is going to average 1 ride a day. That’s what over-saturation does. To the drivers, it’s not the volume of riders a platform gets. It’s the ratio of riders to drivers on the platform that matters. A healthier ratio is less saturated with drivers, which results in more ride requests getting assigned to drivers on the platform.


If Tryp gets as little as 2% of riders and 1% of drivers in the rideshare market to switch, Tryp drivers benefit from a rider to driver ratio that’s twice as healthy as they what they experience on Uber and Lyft. And if Tryp gets as much as 30% of riders and 15% of drivers to switch Tryp drivers still have a rider to driver ratio that’s twice as healthy. So regardless of what share of the rideshare market Tryp gets, Tryp drivers get the same ratio benefit. So, drivers in the first month of Tryp’s existence can expect the same ratio benefit produced by the $199/month barrier to entry as Tryp drivers in the 10th year of Tryp’s existence, despite how much smaller Tryp would be in their 1st month than they would be in year 10.


It's the subscription model, not the company, that is great.


I’ve said I hate a few things so far. I said I hate MLMs. I said I hate Uber and Lyft. I said I hate over-saturation, and the reasons that lead to over-saturation. All that hate leads me to love a subscription based rideshare model. That doesn’t mean I love Tryp. That means I love the subscription-based model they’re using. If some other new rideshare company started with this same subscription-based model, I’d love it too. It’s the model, not the company that uses it, that makes it great.


Why being an MLM has no impact on drivers.


But Tryp is still an MLM, so drivers will fail because of that right?


Wrong (doing my best Trump speaking into the mic impression).

trump2.gif



Tryp drivers are NOT MLM sales reps. When you are a Tryp driver and you logon to Tryp’s website, you will see an “upgrade” tab. When you view that tab, you will see them advertising to you to upgrade to what they call an “Influencer”, and how much it costs you to upgrade. An influencer is a sales rep. They receive compensation via commissions, residual income and bonuses for successfully selling the Tryp platform to drivers, none of which a non-Influencer Tryp driver qualifies for. And yes, it is an MLM model, making a Tryp influencer an MLM sales rep.


And everything I’ve said about the MLM model resulting in the market being saturated with sales reps holds 100% true here. The FTC study (linked above) that show that 99% of MLM sales reps fails is applicable here. 99% of Tryp influencers will probably fail (probably fewer than that in the beginning, but over time it will naturally climb that high because saturation in inevitable in the model). Even if Tryp influencers are ten times more successful than other MLM sales reps, that still means 90% will fail. So, unless you really, really, REALLY believe you can succeed, and are willing to take the effort to execute it, then don’t waste your time, money, and effort on upgrading to a Tryp Influencer. It’s just that simple. Just say no…. and just drive for Tryp.


Sometimes you just gotta commit in order to try


My dream would be a rideshare company that uses a subscription-based service fee model without also being an MLM. But I can’t earn a living in my dreams. So, in reality I do what’s best for me. And in reality, the rideshare company offering the best rideshare model for a driver that does 10+ hours per week is Tryp. So, I’m signed up to drive for Tryp, and can’t wait for them to launch in my city. That said, I still have concerns. After a month or two, I could learn to hate their app. It’s possible. I’m not ignoring the possibility of problems when they do finally launch. But Uber and Lyft are so bad at what they are right now that I am willing to give Tryp a try. I am hoping for something better. As the character Andy Dufresne said in the movie The Shawskank Redemption, “Remember Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.” To me that means that even if Tryp fails, I will still have hope that something better than Uber and Lyft comes along, and that hope is a good thing.


So, if Tryp needs drivers to commit before they launch, then part of my hope and willingness to try them includes me stepping up to make that commitment. Maybe I am unique in that way. Uber and Lyft have driven me (pun intended) to try many different things due to my hope (Doordash, Postmates, Grubhub, Amazon Flex, Field Agent, Mobee, Gigwalk, Easyshift, Stringr, Roadie, etc, etc..). My hope includes hoping that my market gets enough drivers like me willing to commit to Tryp so they launch, and we can then all get to see what they can do for us.


So that’s how I can state that I hate MLMs, that I am signed up to drive for Try, and not be a hypocrite.


In fact, I’m kind of looking forward to a time when Tryp’s influencers reach the over-saturation point. I’m sure I’ll pull up to a red light and look over to see a 5 hour per week Uber driver parked next to a Tryp influencer standing on the curb who was trying to get the driver to sign up for a model that would never work for them. Then the driver will say, “I wish you were cheaper, ‘cause I can’t seem to get any riders”. To which the influencer will say, “Yeah, I can’t find any new Tryp drivers either”. As the light turns green, I will say to them both, “Yeah, over-saturation sucks, don’t it”, as I pull away to drive to my next Tryp pickup as a Tryp driver. I might even buy a microphone so I can drop it on the road before I pull away.
 
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Comments

Aerodrifting

Well-Known Member
There is a barrier to enter but it is not high enough to prevent oversaturation, Not to mention Tryp needs to convert some Uber and Lyft passengers over first.

Also here is the real flaw that is fundamental and very realistic why Tryp will fail: Uber and Lyft are already selling rides at or below actual cost, And they can barely keep their boats afloat with that 25-50% commission. If Tryp wants to go lower while charging even less commission, How do they get enough money to operate the company?
 

UberHammer

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rule of thumb. you get a job to get payed. any company that tells you pay to get a job, just run the other way.....
From Section 4.4 of my Uber driver contract:

In consideration of Company’s provision of the Driver App and the Uber Services for your use and benefit hereunder, you agree to pay Company a service fee
 

UberHammer

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I think what the above poster is saying, is that you need to pay to be considered for employment.

Imagine going to an interview with your resume, and the employer makes you hand over $250 in addition to the resume, just to be interviewed. That is what IMO the above poster is saying.
Neither Uber, nor Lyft, nor Tryp employ drivers. They offer ride brokering services to riders and drivers. Riders pay booking fees to book rides. Drivers pay service fees to be matched to riders. Both are customers of the brokering service.

The only difference between Uber/Lyft and Tryp is that drivers for Tryp get a bulk rate on service fees.

A good business owner understands that. Someone looking for employment wouldn't get it.
 

Solid 5

Well-Known Member
Neither Uber, nor Lyft, nor Tryp employ drivers. They offer ride brokering services to riders and drivers. Riders pay booking fees to book rides. Drivers pay service fees to be matched to riders. Both are customers of the brokering service.

The only difference between Uber/Lyft and Tryp is that drivers for Tryp get a bulk rate on service fees.

A good business owner understands that. Someone looking for employment wouldn't get it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but is this service even off the ground? As I understand it, they don't even have a working app yet?

Have you started to accept ride requests yet? Has anyone?
 

UberHammer

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Correct me if I am wrong, but is this service even off the ground? As I understand it, they don't even have a working app yet?

Have you started to accept ride requests yet? Has anyone?
Like any business that is preparing to open, it's recruiting workers before the open. To be frank, it doesn't make any sense to me why some people have an issue with this. Does a restaurant under construction with a "now hiring" sign on it bother people this much too?

The app is supposed to enter Beta testing in February. And again, it doesn't make any sense to me why some people have an issue with this either. I could do a goggle search for "white lable rideshare app" and have at least a half a dozen companies on my results that are offering a ready to go rideshare app for both riders and drivers that just needs my own branding on it. In fact, I'm kind of expecting that's all they did. There's really no need for them to build one from scratch, unless none of those companies were willing to cut them a deal.
 

Solid 5

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Like any business that is preparing to open, it's recruiting workers before the open. To be frank, it doesn't make any sense to me why some people have an issue with this. Does a restaurant under construction with a "now hiring" sign on it bother people this much too?

The app is supposed to enter Beta testing in February. And again, it doesn't make any sense to me why some people have an issue with this either. I could do a goggle search for "white lable rideshare app" and have at least a half a dozen companies on my results that are offering a ready to go rideshare app for both riders and drivers that just needs my own branding on it. In fact, I'm kind of expecting that's all they did. There's really no need for them to build one from scratch, unless none of those companies were willing to cut them a deal.
Look, I wish you well. I just have a serious trust issue with forking over money to a company that is far from secure to have the "chance" to work for them. It simply and honestly sounds like a pyramid-type issue. I hope it works for you, I truly do. IMO I am HIGHLY skeptical.

And to use your restaurant comparison........many years ago, I walked out of a job, and on my way home I went past a restaurant (chain-style) that was halfway finished erecting the building, and there was a camper (literally) in the parking lot which was mostly gravel, with a "Now Hiring" sign. I went home, changed clothes into something nicer, went to the library and printed off my resume, drove over there..........and did not have to pay $250 to have the chance to become employed.
 

UberHammer

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Look, I wish you well. I just have a serious trust issue with forking over money to a company that is far from secure to have the "chance" to work for them. It simply and honestly sounds like a pyramid-type issue. I hope it works for you, I truly do. IMO I am HIGHLY skeptical.

And to use your restaurant comparison........many years ago, I walked out of a job, and on my way home I went past a restaurant (chain-style) that was halfway finished erecting the building, and there was a camper (literally) in the parking lot which was mostly gravel, with a "Now Hiring" sign. I went home, changed clothes into something nicer, went to the library and printed off my resume, drove over there..........and did not have to pay $250 to have the chance to become employed.
No problem. I wish you well. Like the major point I made in the article, the more reasons there are for drivers to NOT drive for Tryp, the better that makes it for those that do.
 

Karen Stein

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This is not a thread- it's an advertisement!

Multi level marketing. The only thing they promise is to cash your dues check. Even Amway was more honest than that.

Let's look at that $200 monthly fee. I drive Uber full time, and it takes me a solid seven 12-hr days before Uber makes that from me. In return, Uber provides me with dispatch service, cashier service, and buys insurance. Tryp provides none of that. Such a deal.

Perpetual earnings? Only by exploiting those who came last to the party. Just like any other pyramid scheme. There- I said it! Tryp is an illegal pyramid scheme.

If I want to work both ends of the deal, I'll buy Uber stock.
 

UberHammer

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This is not a thread- it's an advertisement!

Multi level marketing. The only thing they promise is to cash your dues check. Even Amway was more honest than that.

Let's look at that $200 monthly fee. I drive Uber full time, and it takes me a solid seven 12-hr days before Uber makes that from me. In return, Uber provides me with dispatch service, cashier service, and buys insurance. Tryp provides none of that. Such a deal.

Perpetual earnings? Only by exploiting those who came last to the party. Just like any other pyramid scheme. There- I said it! Tryp is an illegal pyramid scheme.

If I want to work both ends of the deal, I'll buy Uber stock.
So after 84 hours driving for Uber, you only made $600?

For every $4 a driver earns for base rates, mileage rates and time rates, Uber takes back $1 for service fees, leaving the driver with $3.00 (unless the driver is grandfathered to the 80% like I am, which make it $1 for every $5).

Uber hides this fact by just showing the driver 75% of the rates they make on the fare when the driver views the "Trip Details". So they don't even see the details of it happening. Uber then uses the "service fee" line in the fare details as the place to adjust the fare if 1) they raped the passenger by charging them far more than the rates would have cost the customer; or 2) they discounted the fare for the customer. So the "service fee" line in the fare details does not reflect what Uber is charging drivers. It's always $1 for every $3 the driver ends up with (or $1 for every $4 for grandfathered drivers).

If it takes you a solid seven 12-hr days before Uber takes $200 from you, then you made $600 driving for Uber in that 84 hours ($200 times 3 is $600).

And for your claims, they are obviously hyperbole... and wrong.
 
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Karen Stein

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My claims were wrong? Please explain.

Does not Tryp charge the driver a weekly fee, a few not reflected by the fares you collect?

Does not Tryp have the driver collect the fare? How else can the driver collect the entire fare? Who takes the loss if the charge is later declined?

Does not Tryp promise continuing payments linked to referrals - both passenger and driver - you bring into the system? That's a basic part of every pyramid scheme.

Does Trip provide insurance, or not?

Inquiring minds want to know
 

UberHammer

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My claims were wrong? Please explain.

Does not Tryp charge the driver a weekly fee, a few not reflected by the fares you collect?
The claims I was referring to were where you said "dispatch service, cashier service, and buys insurance" aren't provided by Tryp. I'll get to those in a minute, but let me address Tryp charging the driver.

Uber, Lyft and Tryp all charge the driver service fees.

Uber and Lyft do it as a "pay as you go" model.

Tryp does it as an "all you can eat" model.

To say you don't like Tryp's model is like saying you don't like Old Country Buffet because they make you pay $15 BEFORE you start eating. And that you prefer to go to Applebees because they don't make you pay until AFTER you're done.... but yet you pay Applebees $25... and ate less food.

Tryp's model is a bulk pricing for service fees. That doesn't mean everyone should like it. Not everyone likes "all you can eat buffets". But it works better for some people. Maybe not you though. And that's fine.

Does not Tryp have the driver collect the fare? How else can the driver collect the entire fare? Who takes the loss if the charge is later declined?
Each Tryp driver will have their own merchant account. When a rider requests a ride, the app requests an approval to charge the riders credit card the amount of the ride request. If it's denied, the ride request isn't even assigned to the driver. They never even saw it. When a driver gets a request, there is already an approval on the riders credit card for a ride. The app automatically charges the riders card at the end ride using the approval code they already had. If it's a different amount than what was previously approved, that's not a problem as long as it's not a drastically different amount. So declines are not anything drivers will even see, let alone deal with.

What drivers will have to deal with is charge backs. And the fact that now drivers have to deal with this is a GOOD THING!!!

A charge back is when a rider dispute the charge. When Uber and Lyft first started, Uber and Lyft would get these charge backs and would automatically take the riders side of the story, refund the charge and remove the amount from the drivers earnings. I remember those days well, as they tried it with me once. Why Uber and Lyft always take the riders story, even when it's BS, because they don't want to lose that customer. The merchant bank doesn't require those with merchant accounts to refund charges anytime they are disputed. What they want is evidence that the goods and services were delivered. Send them that, and they'll tell the card holder that their request for a charge back was denied. But again, Uber and Lyft don't do that because the customer won't come back.

But now that the decision of whether or not to grant a charge back is on the hands of the driver, Tryp can't make that decision for us. It's ours. All the driver does is send the merchant bank the evidence that the customer received the service. The merchant bank then denies the charge back and the customer never uses Tryp again as a result.... HOORAY!!!!

That said, if the merchant bank sends a charge back request to a driver, and does not get a response. By default they award the charge back to the card holder. If a driver gets a history of this happening at a certain percentage of their fares, then the merchant cancels their merchant account.

So this is one risk Tryp drivers will have that Uber and Lyft drivers don't. But overall the positives outweigh the negatives.

In addition, drivers with bad credit won't be denied being a driver for Tryp because Tryp has an agreement with the merchant bank that basically make Tryp responsible for any default the may do on merchant account so that the bank takes no risk. Tryp takes the risk on that driver with bad credit. If a bunch of charge backs come in, and there's no revenue coming in for the merchant bank to keep to cover the chargebacks, then Tryp has to pay that difference to the merchant bank when that merchant account for the driver gets closed.

Does not Tryp promise continuing payments linked to referrals - both passenger and driver - you bring into the system? That's a basic part of every pyramid scheme.
Like I said in the article, Tryp Influencers are MLM sales reps. If you don't like MLMs, don't upgrade to Influencer.

As a Tryp driver, you are no more part of an MLM than you would be if you bought Avon products, Tupperware products or Pampered Chef products at a party your friend hosted. They are part of an MLM... but you, the driver, are the customer.

Drivers are customers of Tryp, just like riders are customers of Tryp. Rideshare companies like Uber, Lyft and Tryp are brokering services. Riders pay booking fees to request rides, and drivers pay service fees to be matched to ride requests. Uber, Lyft and Tryp brokers those two types of customers together.

The only difference between being a driver customer of Tryp, and a driver customer of Uber/Lyft, is how often and how much you pay service fees. In Tryp, it's only once a month and always $199. With Uber/Lyft it is paid on every ride, and always $1 for every $3 you end up with ($1 for every $4 for drivers grandfathered to 80%).

Does Trip provide insurance, or not?
Yes.

I don't know where this rumor started, but I've heard like half a dozen times in the past week that they won't. That's a rumor and not true.

Tryp has to provide insurance... BY LAW!!!!

Here is the Ohio Revised Code for Transportation Network Companies (TNC) like Uber, Lyft and Tryp. Scroll down and you will see the law requiers TNCs to have insurance covering the rides and how much coverage they need to have: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3942

I'm using Ohio as an example here because as you can see here, Ohio has approved Tryp's application for a TNC permit. Scroll to the bottom to see Tryp's permit #: https://www.puco.ohio.gov/industry-information/industry-topics/transportation-network-company-list/

Most (but not all) of the new rideshare laws passed since Uber and Lyft have arrived require the companies to provide insurance just like Ohio's does. The government responsible for enforcing those laws has the responsibility of only permitting companies that have agreed to comply with those laws.

Here's another example of a state that has approved Tryp. Arizona: https://www.azdot.gov/docs/default-source/motor-vehicle-services/vehicle-for-hire/vfh-valid-permits-tnc.pdf?sfvrsn=266

Now having said all that. Can you provide me one piece of evidence that Tryp is going to operate without insurance covering the rides? Because those spreading this rumor are accusing Tryp of committing a crime. I would hope such an accusation has some evidence to back it up.

Inquiring minds want to know
Right back at ya!
 

nachoman

Well-Known Member
A few weeks ago I picked up someone here is Dallas who supposedly worked for the company and they were trying to sell it on my pretty hard. As soon as they mentioned the 200 bucks I would have to pay them every month my BS sensors went off. I am not going to pay 200 bucks a month for the privilege to work when they don't have an app or a customer base.
 
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