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The ethical failure of Uber recruitment.

Discussion in 'Complaints' started by UberNaToo, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. UberNaToo

    UberNaToo Active Member

    Location:
    Atlanta
    In this new age of Uberization one of the world's most most vulnerable segments of society are being exploited by Uber a billion dollar hipster start up. Today's under employed, working poor and clueless are enticed by the promise of easy money "instant pay, up to five times a day". The driver App even has the nerve to support a link for Saving For Retirement but unless all Uber drivers are going to be vested in the companies IPO retirement is never going to happen.

    What they don't tell you to earn the $547/week in fares! is that the depreciation of your vehicle to obtain this hefty sum will in many cases decrease the value of your vehicle more than the money you have earned. It's simple mathematics. To maintain an acceptable rating as a driver and earn enough after Uber takes its % and fees you will travel on average 1000 miles a week (this point can be argued but unless you are camping out at the airport for sixteen hours a day the numbers are legit +/-).

    The standard mileage rate in 2016 for the use of a personal vehicle is 54 cents a mile driven. This number takes into consideration all the costs associated with owning a car, including insurance, fuel and repairs. So in effect your $547 in earning actually netted you $7.00 in actual earnings. Further try skimping on the maintenance, or repairs and see your actual costs exceed these numbers. In effect, those same desperate, unemployed Uber drivers are pimping out their one remaining asset for a perceived gain. This analysis does not take into consideration moving violations, accidents, increased insurance costs, unseen cement barriers in poorly lit apartment complexes, etc. "Feel free to add your own additional cost factors in the comments."

    Both major parties are now owned by the corporations. Democracy is dead and it is just a matter of time that unless this truth is exposed most Uber drivers will be residing in their vehicles in order to scratch out some type of meager existence while the Masters of the Universe in San Francisco bath in an ocean of our money.

    Screenshot_20161214-031020.png

    What they should actually advertise is "Start Depreciating Your Car Today"
     
  2. steveK2016

    steveK2016 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Driving:
    UberSELECT
    While it's not a perfect system, that is far from exact for everyone.

    Sure, I'm Select but Select is not that great in Atlanta but I can easily break $500 a week driving just Fri and Saturday, well under 1000 miles. Gas is relatively cheap and I do get tipped enough that it usually covers my gas. I checked my resell value between when I bought my car and today, based on the added Uber mileage and it hasn't dropped any lower than would be expected. Some people commute to work an hour a day in Atlanta, putting a lot of miles on their vehicle.

    The average commute for people aged 20-54 is 18,000 a year. (source) That doesn't include personal miles driven on weekends. Based on my average driving, I'll put in 26,000 miles this year. That's not that big of a difference.

    I would have a car even without uber and I would have insurance without Uber. Those expenses are already covered by my regular job.

    To say that everyone will spend all of their allotted $0.54 a mile on maintenance is just pure pessimism.
     
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  3. UberNaToo

    UberNaToo Active Member

    Location:
    Atlanta


    "And I always thought I was more of a realest. But write on brother I wish we all could afford a luxury vehicle however if we could we'd all be chasing the same fares like UberX. Perhaps I did not make myself clear as the post was not meant for the a seasoned professional like yourself, but the beginner, rookie enticed by the prolific ads on Craigslist and print advertising.

    As far as the milage rate... I've had a fleet of cars throughout my years and if the federal government tells me this is the depreciation rate I'm going to take it as they are rarely generous when it comes to tax time. Note: this rate is adjusted yearly as fuel prices fluctuate.

    Peace!"
     
  4. BostonBarry

    BostonBarry Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Driving:
    Lyft
    A deduction is not equal to an expense. $0.54/mile is average of any car in any city or state across the country for any driver. Average. My insurance, registration, excise tax, fuel, etc don't line up with what others pay outside MA. I've tracked every penny of expense including depreciation for over 18 months and come in at $0.33/mile currently. And that is driving a gas-hungry minivan with high depreciation as it is a 2015.
     
  5. UberNaToo

    UberNaToo Active Member

    Location:
    Atlanta

    Fair enough. On your taxes you feel free to deduct .33 a mile against earnings, I'll stick with the federal rate of .54.
     
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  6. BostonBarry

    BostonBarry Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Driving:
    Lyft
    I'm confused, you seem to write intelligently, have basic math skills, but lack critical thinking skills.

    I claim the $0.54/mile on my taxes. That's the allowed deduction. However, it is NOT representative of my EXPENSES. Because the IRS can't tell you what your expenses are. Nobody can but you. And you can only get an accurate picture of your expenses by keeping accurate records. Using the IRS deduction to state ALL drivers are LOSING $0.54/mile is false and shows a clear misunderstanding of accounting.

    Our income is categorized in three ways:
    1. Gross Revenue. This is the amount you receive in deposits.
    2. Net Revenue. This is the amount of gross revenue you profit after paying for all expenses.
    3. Taxable Revenue. This is the amount you can be taxed on and if you're keeping good records and have a smart person doing your taxes this figure will be MUCH MUCH lower than your actual profit.
    The IRS allows us to deduct $0.54/mile but my expenses are only $0.33/mile. This means I'm earning $0.21/mile tax free PROFIT. Mileage deduction alone is getting me over $5,000 in profit this year tax-free. So to reiterate: Tax deductions are not expenses. They're quite the opposite. They are the reason I earn more now but pay less in taxes than before.
     
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  7. BostonBarry

    BostonBarry Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Driving:
    Lyft
    This was my favorite part. As a full timer I'm on target to GROSS $60,000 this year and out of that NET $45,000. My vehicle cost $20,000 and only has 45k miles on it. Figure it is good for at least another 2 years before major repair (warranty covers until 100k). Assuming revenue stays the same, that's $180,000 GROSS and $135,000 NET for 3 years. Assuming I get nothing for the car at end of its life, that means I lost $20k investment to earn $135,000. I could buy 6 new cars and break even. So tell us again how the vehicles are depreciating faster than we can earn.....
     
  8. jfinks

    jfinks Active Member

    Location:
    KS
    Your numbers are way off. I did a little NADA research the other day. All things being equal, a six year old car with 60,000 miles was worth about $3,000 less than one with 120,000 miles on it. This will vary a little up and down, but not much. So say I have a car with 60,000 miles on it and drive 50,00o miles in the next couple of years it will depreciate the value of the car about $3-4000, yet I will make $40-50,000 in that 2 years. Not a bad trade off. The reality is if you buy the right car for ubering then depreciation doesn't matter a whole lot. It does some, yes, but not as much as most think.

    So lets use your number of about $550 a week which is obtainable just doing this part time. That is 2,200 a month and about 24k per year. Two years that is 48k and you would drive somewhere between 50-60000 miles to do that in 2 years. That would depreciate your car at tops 4k. See the car is going to depreciate anyway, so might as well use it to bang out some cash. Cars today are highly under utilized and wear out more because of the years in the elements than actually driving it, as long as you keep up with the important maintenance.

     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
  9. UberNaToo

    UberNaToo Active Member

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Write on.... feel free to fill in the blanks on how it is that you are averaging $1250 a week. Let's keep in mind that my experiences are Atlanta based, UberX and with limited experience on the road. If I was an accountant type I'd be sitting in a clients conference room combing through bankers boxes finding ways for them to avoid paying federal income taxes and getting mad perks along the way, but I'm not. I'm lazy about that and do not want to fill all available nooks and crannies of my vehicle with receipts. There are times I am rushing to fill up so that I can enjoy the euphoria of another incoming ping like some crack addict hitting that pipe. Maybe that will change, but I believe most Uber drivers are like me and want to leave all this behind them when they go off line.

    So I want to keep it simple, and ATL. I'm not moving to Boston, I hate the weather there and your baseball team (lol, not really). Break it down for me por favor. I learned about Uber in DC while traveling there and constantly heard the same from drivers there $1,400 a week, but Uber advertising here states you can earn in the $500 a week area. Maybe are rates are too low. I did 70-90 pickups the past two weeks and the numbers are more in line with $500 a week for way too much time on the road. I was tired after a busy morning with no down time between pings averaging just over $10/hour gross and I decided to go back on line around Emory University. It was an Uber pool and I hesitated a moment but hit that pipe one more time. Result: two students pickups, thirty minutes of total travel time to deposit them at separate coffee houses and a combined fee of just over $5.00 so,

    1. How many hours are you working a week?
    2. How many pick ups are you making in that time span?
    3. Are you working continuous hours or are you forced to break your day up into several different time slots?
    4. Does your present activity allow you to enjoy any semblance of a family life or is your ass bolted to the seat of your vehicle?
    5. While working as a contractor for the CIA, I netted $500 a day seven days a week. That's $182,500 a year for a six hour shift. We had cooks, laundry service and alcohol, but I was still away from my family, and in the end my best day there was not as good as my worst one here.

    How am I doing?
     
  10. UberNaToo

    UberNaToo Active Member

    Location:
    Atlanta
    btw, this post started with the premise that the Uber organization is not ethically representing the reality of the Uber opportunity. Specifically that most people that drive for Uber part time, or use their personal vehicle are essentially pimping it out for some fast cash without an appreciation of the long term effects on their vehicle's long term performance.

    I had this epiphany while hammering out 1,659 miles my first week working the 2300-1000 shift which consisted largely of strippers, prostitutes, booty calls and then your worker bees heading into the city...

    "Using your personal vehicle between jobs, underemployed, or downsized is like a Jockey taking his thoroughbred race horse and between races hitching her up and plowing a field."

    Is anyone going to do that? Seriously... 996114_1445124392384171_1575309247_n.jpg expect that horse to perform at that next race?
     
  11. BostonBarry

    BostonBarry Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Driving:
    Lyft
    First mistake is driving with uber. I drove them first but when I added Lyft I could see my per-ride AND hourly averages were higher so I focused on Lyft. Then come February Uber screwed up my 1099 and refused to look into it so I told them to deactivate me. Best choice ever. I hit the 20% PDB for Lyft each week, so I pay nothing in commission almost every week. Lyft allows tipping in app which for me averages 7-10% of gross each week.

    If you "don't want to be an accountant" and keep records which then results in you donating money to the IRS and having no actual clue what your expenses are then stop driving and don't go to online forums making blanket statements that all drivers are losing money.

    BOS rates vs ATL rates, you're about 40% lower. Which means if our markets average the same business level, you'll earn $30k ($37k minus uber 20%) where I earn $60k. Admittedly, that sounds bad. HOWEVER, don't ignore the fact that cost of living in ATL is 30-40% lower than BOS so your dollars go much farther. Your original statement was that at $500/week and 1000 miles/week no driver is making a profit. This proves that even at $500/week you're making a decent profit, not exchanging car value for cash in a net zero situation. Unless your car is worth $30k and is junked every year, you're earning a profit.

    Since you don't want to keep records I also highly doubt you're putting 1000 business miles on the car in a week. I drive about 35 hours per week and put on only about 600 business related miles/week. Assuming a high-end average of 25mph, (I average less than 20mph) it would take you at least 40 hours to drive 1000 miles. Another anomaly in your statement is your claim of grossing $547 requiring 1000 miles on your car. You claimed to do 70-90 trips so let's call it 80. At the current ATL UberX rate that is $80 in Base Fare, assuming 50% miles are unpaid that is $375 in mileage and assuming 3 paid minutes per paid mile (my average) that is $180 in minutes for a total of $635. Pretty close to your guess, right? BUT - that is at BASE rates. No surge, no boost, no guarantees, no tips, etc. So clearly the only way to drive 1000 miles/week and gross $547 is if you're driving the absolute worst times/locations if you can't get even one surge ride.

    Also, I'm not even a great example of the perfect driving setup in Boston. I live 20 miles from the city which means 99% of the time I have at least 40 miles of dead-heading to do. I choose to work 3 or 4 long shifts rather than bouncing back and forth to the city for the busier times so I'm there when it is slammed and I'm there when it is dead. As pointed out earlier my car is fairly new and gets 15-17mpg in city. There are a lot of ways I could improve my profit margin but I'm earning enough and this setup makes me happy. To answer your numbered questions:
    1. 30-40 depending on how long my trips are, how busy it is. I drive until I hit my 75 rides for PDB, by then I've usually grossed over my minimum dollar goal of $1000/week.
    2. 75 rides a week, rarely more. I've had a few weeks this year where I couldn't drive as much or at all due to family obligations (vacation, wedding, honeymoon, holidays)
    3. I typically drive 10-12 hours straight between noon and 3am as I don't want to commute back and forth to the city. I do this mostly Thursday, Friday, Saturday but if something comes up to interfere I'll drive Sunday or sometimes the weekdays to fill the gaps.
    4. I do this because it works with family/social life. I was a single dad when I started it and before rideshare I'd have to use after-school care for my kids while I worked. If they had off from school have to request off, call out, or bring them with me. Now I'm remarried and my wife teaches so I'm home all day Sunday with her, Mon/Tue/Wed afternoon and nights with her, and she uses Thu/Fri/Sat afternoon/nights either for time with her friends or herself. Occasionally she has outside teaching work she'll do as well.
    5. Don't think that was a question.....whatever floats your boat I guess?
    Your vehicle has value, yes. That value will diminish with each use, yes. The main point of contention here is that it costs $0.54/mile to operate a car. It doesn't. I haven't seen ANYONE with a thorough analysis of their expenses showing anything approaching that high.
     
  12. steveK2016

    steveK2016 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Driving:
    UberSELECT
    $1250 a week would definitely be rough in Atlanta and would require far more than a standard 40 hour work week to accomplish. $1000 would be more managable, $800 would be more realistic. I only drove weekday afternoon once because of an hourly guarantee. I could see you doing $75 in any given afternoon. If you mix in some morning commutes, I could see doing $1250 if your work smart. Living IN the city would be a huge advantage.
     
  13. simpsonsverytall

    simpsonsverytall Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    i love how a 'select' specialist, and a 'minivan' specialist have come on here to defend uber's recruitment of newbie uberx drivers...
     
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  14. BostonBarry

    BostonBarry Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Driving:
    Lyft
    Actually the main points I brought up were in regards to his claims that it costs $0.54/mile to operate a vehicle (it doesn't) and that a driver has to drive 1000 miles a week which is very unlikely even at the ATL UberX rates which are the rates I quoted when pointing to the flaws in his claims for earnings. But go on and keep trying to dismiss logical observations with invalid arguments.
     
  15. BostonBarry

    BostonBarry Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Driving:
    Lyft
    Oh and Plus fares account for MAYBE 10% of my income.
     
  16. simpsonsverytall

    simpsonsverytall Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    you are one of the rare successes at Uber

    most people with x are grossing 10-15/hr over anything near full time hours
     
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  17. BostonBarry

    BostonBarry Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Driving:
    Lyft
    I'm not with uber but thanks. You ignored the point. I gave him figures based on his rates in his city for the number of rides he said he gives. And the IRS deduction vs actual expenses has nothing to do with being a good or bad driver. It is a flawed argument because tax deductions just aren't expenses.
     
    negeorgia likes this.
  18. unPat

    unPat Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orlando
    Uber advertises fair fare but no fair wages.
     

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  19. simpsonsverytall

    simpsonsverytall Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    ok, "i love how a 'select' specialist, and a a guy who doesn't even drive Uber (Boston Barry) come on here to defend Uber's recruitment of newbie uberx drivers...
     
  20. BostonBarry

    BostonBarry Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Driving:
    Lyft
    just because I don't currently drive uber doesn't mean I never have. And just because I don't drive uber it doesn't mean that I can't poke holes in a false statement that has nothing to do with uber itself. and just because I poke holes in that statement doesn't mean I agree with Uber practices. It just means I can't stomach the sight of idiocy on the internet. But then you probably already know that.
     

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